Comments on: Shoaib Mansoor’s fanatism"In the name of God"

By: One Karachite

One Karachite — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 23:18:30 +0000

Adnan,

Well said.

Some times when I read Quran, I come acroos a ayat which roughly mean ‘…and their earnings lead them to this way…’ or something similar. In one plain word, I would call people like him LOSERS.

BTW, Abu-Jahil was considered very intelligent at the time of Prophet it was his ignorance to Islam and Muhammad (Peace be upon him) that earned him this TITLE.

People like these think that Junaid Jamshed should listen to him rather than Allah and his messenger.

May Allah give them guidance and to every one of us. Ameen.

I can’t imagine how hard it would be for Junaid Jamshed.

By: Atif Abdul-Rahman

Atif Abdul-Rahman — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:10:28 +0000

very well written.
seems natural too, full of emotions.

By: M J Iqbal

M J Iqbal — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:55:29 +0000

Shoaib Mansoor is partially right. Famous Islamic Scholor who is the first to find the letters of Nabi Karim in 20th century and publish them and the first Muslim to translate Quran in French, opening door for thousands of French men and women to accept Islam came to Pakistan in late 20th century and gave a series of lectures at University of Bahawalpur. On a question he said, only music which is played at an idol (but) is haram but music in itself is not haram. He asked people to show a single hadis declaring music haram.

As far as painting is concerned, Allah SWT is the best Painter. One only has to see the sky at daybreak and dusk to see how Superb His Painting is. Butterflies, Doves and Peacock and thousands of flowers and Fishes. Indeed there could be no painter as Perfect as Him. So if He Wants to Keep the Art only upto Him, we can only bow our head to His decision. Islam means complete submission to Allah’s Will and Allah Does Not Accept less than complete submission.

M J Iqbal

By: Ahmed Shaikh Memon

Ahmed Shaikh Memon — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:12:23 +0000

May ALLAH bless you Adnan. Keep up the good work.

From my point of view I pray that Allah give us righteous direction even to Shoib Mansoor, M J Iqbal (look at his comments) and the rest of _modern_ people of islam.

Just a request, if you do not practice ISLAM then let others do it, atleast keep yourself from spreading sin for the sack of your interpretation of GOD not ALLAH.

ALLAH is what we have been taught by Quran and Ahadis not by Shoib Mansoor, Ahmed Shaikh Memon (me) or Adnan Siddiqui.

May Allah bless all of us, and keep all of us away from the reach of those for whom ALLAH has decided not to bless. Ameen.

By: Kashif Hafeez

Kashif Hafeez — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:50:22 +0000

Adnan !

Great writeup.

Regards,

Kashif Hafeez

By: syed shane ali

syed shane ali — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:00:00 +0000

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
The Beneficent, the Merciful.
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
Keep us on the right path.
The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

By: faisal

faisal — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:33:35 +0000

Shoaib Mansoor is not the only person behind this all , If you c Geo Tv is fully supporting him .. Why ….? the reason is very simple , they have an agenda to complete and they all are working on it.

By: Shehla

Shehla — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:37:12 +0000

I was also one of the biggest fans of Shoaib Mansoor and was waiting eagerly for this movie. But after reading his statement on movie’s website, I was extremely disappointed. I completely agree with Adnan. You wrote what any Muslim with common sense and logic could think.

By: admin

admin — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:39:47 +0000

Faisal, regardless of who’s behind the project, the statement given by SM is his own thought because he raised similar concerns when JJ joined tableeghi jamat in 2000 and shoaib was mad at that time.

@shehla: thanks and keep visiting:-)

By: symk

symk — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:00:29 +0000

I wonder how the liberals have become experts in interpretation of islam and fiqh, they want to change islamic values according to their needs instead of following the religion which has been completed 1400 years ago. They should understand that extremism from their part will ignite more extremism and the fire will spread to the entire country. I am disappointed by Shoaib Mansoor’s fatwa about music and painting. He needs some lessons from maulana Tariq Jameel

By: Ahmad

Ahmad — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:20:50 +0000

Adnan you comprehensively explained every thing about music, painting, JJ and SM’s minset. People like SM actually look at Islam from western eyes. When they are in a mood to read about Islam they first read alleged controversial issues as projected by west. Their aim is not for understating Islam thoroughly but only to gather controversial information and project them in front of others. They never change themselves but they change Quran.

By: Haris Khan

Haris Khan — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:06:04 +0000

Music and Paintings are haram …

Now I understand why muslims didn’t innovate anything in this era. We didn’t build companies like Cannon, Sony, Apple and how about Adobe .. anybody.

Our minds are closed for good .. atleast for now, until a Massiah will come .. so lets wait and don’t sing songs while waiting because they are haram too … ;(

peace

By: -

Fri, 20 Jul 2007 05:37:49 +0000

If innovation is about building companies, Einstein just rolled in his grave.

By: admin

admin — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 05:45:08 +0000

haris, since you dont consider haram,tell me what have you invented yet which could be helpful for Pakistanis?

Ignorance shouldnt be an excuse. Jews who are major players in the field o technology are religiously inclined as well. Speilberg DOESNT offend his relgiion in Indian Jones like Mr.Mansoor.

By: Abdur Rehman

Abdur Rehman — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 05:46:04 +0000

ROSHAN KHAYAL KI THEME per ja rahi hai jesa mujay lag raha hai movie dheknay kay baad pata chalay ga abhi tu sirf kay hi sakta hon cause is director nay Junaid Jamshed ko bura kaha hai kay osnay 16 yrs ka music ka profession chora mujay baghair batay yeah is ka baap hai jo isko bata kar choray ga aur yeah kayna kay kuda bhala 2 khoobsurat cheezoo ko ko haram kiyn karay ga means painting aur music jis ki base per JJ nay music chora aur yeah bhi kayna kay JJ apni nai image say SOCIETY ko DAMAGE karaha hai means fundamentalist hokar islam follow kar kay app society ko damage kartay hai herat hai esi souch hai movie kay director ki …….

By: Abdullah

Abdullah — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:36:24 +0000

For you kind information Haris Khan. the founder of almost all inventions were Muslims and they people didn’t really listen music. not our minds our closed for goods, your’s mind is closed for goods because there are movies and songs.already.

By: Irfan

Irfan — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:17:20 +0000

i agree with Mr. Abdullah. There are ruls you have to follow in ISLAM, if you dont then it didnt mean that those rules are not exist.

By: RAVIAN

RAVIAN — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:55:41 +0000

Let there be no compulsion in religion. (2:256)

Whoever wills, let him believe; and whoever does not will, let him disbelieve. (18.29)

By: Adnan Siddiqi

Adnan Siddiqi — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:40:32 +0000

Ravian,

my friend thanks for quoting these verses but may I tell youn that those verses actually talks about non-muslims that MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT force them to accept Islam? I wonder you read it yourself in Quran or just heared from others? let me quote the full aya:

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Allah is the ally of those who believe. He brings them out from darknesses into the light. And those who disbelieve - their allies are Taghut. They take them out of the light into darknesses. Those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide eternally therein (Quran 256-257)

In Urdu:

دین (اسلام) میں زبردستی نہیں ہے ہدایت (صاف طور پر ظاہر اور) گمراہی سے الگ ہو چکی ہے تو جو شخص بتوں سے اعتقاد نہ رکھے اور خدا پر ایمان لائے اس نے ایسی مضبوط رسی ہاتھ میں پکڑ لی ہے جو کبھی ٹوٹنے والی نہیں اور خدا (سب کچھ) سنتا اور (سب کچھ) جانتا ہے

جو لوگ ایمان لائے ہیں ان کا دوست خدا ہے کہ اُن کو اندھیرے سے نکال کر روشنی میں لے جاتا ہے اور جو کافر ہیں ان کے دوست شیطان ہیں کہ ان کو روشنی سے نکال کر اندھیرے میں لے جاتے ہیں یہی لوگ اہل دوزخ ہیں کہ اس میں ہمیشہ رہیں گے ۞35

Where it’s written that Muslim is free to accept rules of God or not. Those who don’t accept are NOT muslims. If you are saying that Shoaib is free to accept Islam or not then you are right to quote this verse.

Also, if I take your interpetition that ONE is free to practise religion then why is shoaib imposing his views on JJ and getting mad at him? Please don’t quote things out of context

By: Sabeen Khan

Sabeen Khan — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 16:02:18 +0000

Well, the movie is based on the theme of “Enlightened Moderation” …every person related to media is in the favor of this movie…but i hope for the best…this movie will be soon banned….inshaAllah….n Shoaib Mansoor will never be succeeded in his mission….

he’s a real LOSER !

By: twomanyface

twomanyface — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:14:13 +0000

Let me apologize in advance, if I end up offending someone here. My intent is not to offend, but to reflect as the author has done so.

WOW … I am utterly disappointed at this article. Very very sad show of interpretation and assessment. I am not sure if this was a critique of the movie, that obviously the author has not seen yet, or a weak attempt at character assassination of Shoaib Mansoor, or damage his credibility in telling a story, that someone needs to tell. Perhaps an attempt to strengthen the belief structure preached by Junaid Jamshaid, and confusing the stance that Shoaib Mansoor had taken.
For all the others that responded to the article above – I feel that they probably never went back to read it twice, and like good muslims, they went on commending the author for a job well done. A classic representation of true muslims in our world today, i.e. if they think that if someone is saying something that is more acceptable in the main stream Islamic faith, say MashAllah; without thinking about it twice.

My impression of this article as I kept on reading it as I went along was, that this guy is way off, and getting carried away with his emotions. I feel, we as muslims in the world today are more driven by our emotions about Islam, then the teachings of Islam. And that shows in this article.
First off, if Junaid Jamshaid is the person that I think he is, he would not have said the things about Shoaib Mansoor, which the author has taken the liberty of saying, and in the manner he went on reinforcing his personal belief by attacking another person, even to the point he is degrading a human being (SM), by over criticizing him. I am not sure if I understand what credibility the author had, in assuming that it was ‘ok’ for him to do this, other than that there was a lot of show of emotion, and he thought that he had to say something in response to SMs interview. In reading the excerpt from SMs interview, I feel that he was probably feeling betrayed by a close friend, for not confiding in him in such a major life altering decision. He probably thought that JJ probably owed that much to him, and may be he was wrong in expecting that. Normal natural reaction, I did not try to read too much into it. I am not going to attack SM or JJ, in either of their opinions, because I think that I probably hold a biased opinion on the matter too.
The author, Adnan, blatantly got personal on the subject, and in the process got very judgmental about the whole issue with SM, the movie, and his interview. I guess I should ask him to research and let us know, under the Islamic principals what right does one have to pass a judgment on another human being? In our main stream practice of the faith these days, we are very quick to judge any one who fails to meet our standards, and not necessarily Allah’s standards. By the same process, Adnan, the author, assumed that when SM was referring to painting, he was referring to paintings of animals, creatures, and other beings. Whereas, the two Hadith he has referenced, are particular targeted towards imagery of other creations. I think he was really trying to make a point, but could not gather substantial background information, and therefore used what he could easily use to make a point and attack SM.
I am utterly disturbed by Adnan’s sense of reason and logic. It seems like, according to Adnan, the only logic and reason there is Adnan’s. Please do not use terms that you do not fully comprehend. The most confused terms are reason and logic, especially in the Muslim world. All I am going to say about it is that, in my experience, reason and logic are very relative terms. Therefore one should not assume that their set of logic and reason applies to everything.
I am sorry to read that such a loosely put argument was commended by so many. What should have ideally happened is that the article should instigate a dialogue, and other should have provided some credible input to the argument. But I think that is perhaps too much to ask of muslims these days, because they fear that they don’t want to think or ponder in the direction of something, that may be categorized as ‘sin’, and therefore would rather not think at all. On the other hand they feel it their religious duty to attack anything they feel maybe considered anti-religious. Narrow-mindedness is not having a set of values that one feels strong about, but narrow-mindedness is having the opinion about ones reason and logic infallible.
I am not sure what the author was trying to prove when he said that he could not pray when he used to listen to music, and now that he has stopped listening to music he can pray. What is it that he is trying to prove, is this a suppose to be an exemplary stance to prove a point. Even though I have come across hundreds of people giving similar examples in the past, but I have always disagreed with them. I am not sure who to take the example Adnan gives, but my impression of it is that he was probably confused when he did not pray, and praying has not helped him any. I am sorry, I am getting a little personal, here. But I am not sure how to respond to it. I have always been praying, five times a day, ever since I can remember. I am not one of those people who have recently realized Islam, and feel the need to be a good muslim, and the only way to be a good muslim that I could figure was to start praying. I do not want to give you the wrong impression, there have been patches in my life when I did not pray for months on end, but there have been always patches where I would make an effort to make up for ones I missed, for weeks on end. But I have always been an avid music listener and a moviegoer. Does either prove that I am good muslim or a bad muslim, I have never felt so, and cannot understand people who use these as tools to measure their own or others faith by. I would say excess of music and movies is bad, that there is nothing else that would rather be doing, on the same argument, I would also say, too much praying is probably also not healthy for you. I know there would be people who would jump on the opportunity and thrash me for saying this, but let me reiterate – where listening to music 24 hrs a day is not practical, by the same account praying 24hrs a days in also not practical. We as muslims cannot seem to find the ‘middle path’ that there are so many Hadith about. But we will find it very convenient to throw in each others faces Hadiths to prove a point.
As far as I can see the only thing that I can agree with the author, Adnan, is that these are rants. Not a good example of anything, maybe just hurtful to one person, i.e. SM, and misleading to hundreds of other who may come across this as a critique.

By: Adnan Siddiqi

Adnan Siddiqi — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:07:53 +0000

TwoManyFace: Question is not what I believe or Not as I am not being targeted by Shoaib.

Secondly, you wrote a lengthy comment but I am failed to understand whether you have issue with me, with Junaid or Shoaib’s comment in plain english which you can’t deny at all.

Please summarize your reply. I would be more than greatful.

Secondly, don’t compare me with Junaid. He’s wayy better than me.

P.S:I am nothing infront of Him. I am in state in which Junaid was that is phase of transiition. Offcourse I am emotional about Islam and it’s not a sin but nowhere I misused it by condemning something which is right. Again, you better read first what I said, you better get knowledge first what TABLEEGH is all about, you better find out first what Junaid Thinks about!. I have just made another post where I posted his video.

By: twomanyface

twomanyface — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:22:28 +0000

I do not have an issue with you, or any one else for that matter. As I started out in the previous post, I was(am) just reflecting on what was going through my mind when I was reading your post. And the fact that people were seeing it as a positive assessment was probably more bothersome, then the article itself, Whereas I saw the whole approach to the discussion quite troubling, and I just shared with you and everyone else why I disagreed with the post, and what were the flaws in the argument, if there was an argument.
Things I had an issue with, listed below -
The title - was misleading
The interview excerpt - was interpreted as ‘you’ wanted it to be, interpreted, and perhaps justifying the title. I was just showing the possibility of another angle. Not knowing either of the individuals personally, I cannot say with authority that this is what this person means, or is implying.
Too many personal attacks – The fact that you probably got personal when attacking SM, not realizing that you were going over board with it. And no one seem to have a problem with it. I have personal friends that I disagree with all the time, and would flirt with their belief structure, but not out right offend them, or their intelligence. That is not the Islamic way. Islam gives more value to people and the human (social) relationship, then ever mentioned by the so called keepers of the faith. Yet the tools we use and abuse to measure others people are our own constructs.
Too much credit to JJ – and in your response you did it again, implying that he is ‘such a great person’. I am sorry, even though I have nothing against him, but I think in his religious vigor he is letting him self be used as a mouth piece of the Tablighi Jamaat. Which in my opinion is not a smart thing to do. Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), admitted to have made the same mistake in early days of Islam. You may want to lookup his interview in reference to that. I am not a new-comer to Islam, but I have never been able to see eye-to-eye anything that main stream Islam, as the one prescribed by Tablighi Jamaat, and the one predominantly followed in Pakistan and India. I am no one to openly challenge it, but I can comfortably say that it is not without errors. It not what they preach is wrong, it the spirit of emphasizing on things that ‘they’ feel are important. The same issue with Taleban, whom I have noticed that you are emotionally attached to, from your other posts. I fear, you may be emotionally attached to everything ‘Islam’, in experience, emotional grounds are usually pretty shaky ones, and the is no place for reason or logic, when you are consumed by emotion. I have been studying, and not just dinyaat, really studying Islam since I was 10, and I have been very lucky to have very good teachers a long the way. But the Islam enforced by the Jamaat and Taleban, is a very dangerous one, and could not be farther from the truth. Its all about power and politics, and that is what corrupts it in the long run.

I think I have tried to explain myself more than I wanted to, again, and this is becoming another long ass post. This is your blog, I should not be the one trying to take it over. I thought that there were some errors in your approach or presentation that needed a second look. Also your conclusion to the article was too tablighi. You see if I am going to critique a movie, I am going to critique a movie. If I am going to defend my faith, I am going to defend mine, not attacks someone else’s. You start out talking about a movie, and end on ‘here is how you lookup resources on Islam’, ??? and make it an opportunity to tablegh people, not very authentic, nor reasonable.

P.S. JJ is just a human being, like you and me. Having a beared, and trouser above his ankles does not make him a better person. This is not a crtique of him, but a request to reassess the tools you judge a person by. There is no tool available to you, me or anyone, that can show us what is ones status (darja) with Allah, and that is fact that you can’t deny.

By: MM

MM — Sat, 21 Jul 2007 03:12:56 +0000

I would just like to respond to one of Adnan Siddiqi’s arguments against music. By a wonderful stretch of imagination, he has completely confused two entirely separate issues. Passion for any activity or hobby can make one neglectful of his duty towards his religion. If someone enjoys reading so much that he spends hours upons hours immersed in his favorite book and thereby misses all his prayers, should we not consider “reading” against Islam by this logic? It would be hard to come up with any “activity” which cannot be construed as unislamic according to this yardstick. Just one very simple example is enough to expose the hollowness of the argument against music. And by the way, how can one be labelled as a fanatic simply by making a movie about an issue that one strongly believes in?

By: admin

admin — Sat, 21 Jul 2007 06:54:34 +0000

@MM: Read it carefully! I am not a god neither Religion was proposed by me. Your example of reading or something is useless. If I gave my own example then it doesn’t mean that IT WAS NOT IN ISLAM. WHy dont you guys make attempt to read Quran and hadith yourself to findout truth rather come on forum and start discussing something illogically. “In Islam music which is called today Is not allowed”. I didn’t quote any hadith because I was not aware. If I didn’t quote then it just means I am not aware , it doesn’t mean I am using ISLAM. Kindly read source books rather arguing with me. I could be wrong because i am human but not Quran and Hadith.

. And by the way, how can one be labelled as a fanatic simply by making a movie about an issue that one strongly believes in?

You should ask anti-Mullah cabal who keeps doing it all the time. By the way I just searched dictionary and found following meaning of Fanataism.

fanaticism: excessive intolerance of opposing views . This is all Shoaib Did? by showing intolerance and didn’t accept JJ’s action wit open heart

P.S: I have added JJ’s interview on same post. Pls read it

By: admin

admin — Sat, 21 Jul 2007 06:58:39 +0000

I say only one thing that if one wants to fulfill his fantasy then DO IT! Why the heck people try to find justification in Islam and try to twist original teachings?

By: admin

admin — Sat, 21 Jul 2007 07:03:56 +0000

@TwoManyFaces: For God sake yaar, why are you trying to GIVE YOUR OWN meaning of his statement? What Shoaib said was in Plain english. What I wrote is also in plain english. There is no twisting at all. you are trying to make things which suits you well.

J is just a human being, like you and me. Having a beared, and trouser above his ankles does not make him a better person.

Do you know Junaid? DO you claim this? Atleast I don’t but I appreciate his struggle to become a good muslim. Why do you guys have issues with DARHEE? If your own nafs don’t allow you to keep one then you would start cticizing others?

also, i have added JJ’s video about his life style. Visit this link and see yourself what he talks about. Don’t make assumptions my friend.

http://kadnan.com/blog/2007/07/20/junaid-jamshed-interview-about-his-life-and-music/

P.S: it’s your blog as well. You can make infinite comments you want. reason I asked you to summarize because I didn’t find continuity or was unable to understand it. Nothing else.

By: void

void — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 08:01:48 +0000

All those enlightened moderates who say that music is allowed in Islam, refer to this Hadith

“The Prophet (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) said, “There will be [at some future time] people from my Ummah who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the wearing of silk (for men), wine-drinking and the use of musical instruments [ma’aazif]” (Sahih Al-Bukharee)

Regarding a detailed discussion on the prohibition of music in Islam you can refer to this
http://members.tripod.com/oum_abdulaziz/music1.html

Actually this topic has never been a source of controversy until recent times when some people are more concerned with changing Islam to follow thir own likings and wishes than to follw Islam as commanded by Allah, taught by His Prophet (pbuh) and practiced by his companions.

I was amused to read a Mr J Iqbal’s comment when he introduced a scholar who translated the Quran in french and who said that music is allowed in Islam as a “proof”. It just reminded me of this Hadith

On the authority of `Adi Ibn Hatim (ra), it is reported that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may Peace Be Upon Him) reciting this Qur’anic verse:

” They have taken their rabbis and their monks as lords beside Allah and [they take as a lord] Al-Maseeh, `Eesaa, the son of Maryam, yet they were not commanded but to worship One God: None has the right to be worshipped but He - Praise and Glory to Him: [Far is He] from having the partners they associate [withHim]” (Qur’an 9:31)

“…and I said to him : “We don’t worship them.” He (may Peace Be Upon Him) said: “Do they not forbid what Allah has permitted and do you not then forbid it (to yourselves), and do they not make permissible for you what Allah has forbidden, and do you not then make it permissible (to yourselves)?” I replied: “Certainly!” He (may Peace Be Upon Him) said: “That is worshipping them.” (Narrated by At-Tirmizi, who graded it as Hasan)

O people! fear Allah. This is indeed a time of fitnah and trials. And as muslims we need to educate ourselves about our own religion. This is the most important need of our time. Otherwise the enlightened moderates will keep on attacking islam and the way of our Prophet(pbuh) in the pre-text of changing with the times and to please their masters which they have taken.

commentors like MM and twomanyface (appropriately named) can only bask in the delight of their false logic and slander. They think that their own limited knowledge and rationale is much better than the word of Allah and tachings of His Prophet (pbuh); a doctrine that is very intelligently being introduced to our youth by people like Javed Ghamdi. I dont even want to go into answering their slander and personal statements.

We have to learn exactly what Allah demands from us, How the Prophet (pbuh) taught us and how the companions followed it. They never said that how come you are asking us to abandon something that we have been practicing and enjoying for the last 16 years. Actually that was the argument of the kuffaar that how come you are telling us that what we have been practicing and enjoying for the past centuries is wrong.
May Allah save us from questioning His words and decisions.

I also remember this verse of the Quran
“Say (O Muhammad (PBUH) to mankind): `If you (really) love Allah then follow me then Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”’ (Quran 3:31)

Remember o slaves of Allah! that you will be responsible for your actions. One day you will be standing in front of Allah and you will say that so and so told me to follow such and such and you will be asked didn’t you received my Book and didn’t I send a Prophet to teach you what was in my book.
Think about this as the one who misguided you will accompany you to an adobe that is not favored.

Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal said: “I am amazed at those people who know that a sanad is authentic and yet, in spite of this, they follow the opinion of Sufyan (referring to a specific case, meaning other scholars), for Allah, says:

” Let those who oppose his [the Messenger’s] commandment beware, lest some fitnah befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them” (Qur’an 24:63)

Do you know what that fitnah is? That fitnah is Shirk. Maybe the rejection of some of his words would cause one to doubt and deviate in his heart and thereby be destroyed.”

May Allah save us from the misguidance and allow us to learn, understand and follow our deen to the maximum. May Allah guide the ones who follow their own whims and slander and mock the ones who submit their wills to that of Allah.

By: rafoo chakkar

rafoo chakkar — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 22:00:11 +0000

i just want to say tht whether music is allowed in islam or not i think we are just wasting our time in discussing tht matter which does not effect our lives in a particular way if it does not give any thing usefull to us and if its not good at all than it does not harm us too music is associated to some particular poeple who can sing,play musical instruments or can compose music because thay have aesthetics in tht particular field we all can’t do things like this because we all dont have tht sense or we are not talented tht much we can only listen to music and as far as im concerned it does give me a sense to evaluate things in a better way for example the song “ALLAH HOO” if u listen to tht song of film KKL sung by saeen zahoor he has sung this sung tremendously the way he said ALLAH at the start of the song is amazing and beautiful and with the blend of beautiful music it is a great song but you poeple cant understand tht because you will just think whatever it is it is haram but with due respect there is no strong hadith or ayat in which it is said tht music is haram the hadith reffered by VOID it is said tht people will make lawfull fornication like the use of musical instrument. so in this hadith it is not said tht music is haram or singing is haram so this disscussion is a waste of time i just wanted to say tht we have so much time to think abt tht thing is haram or halal which does not have any direct link with us and even does not harm us in any way if u miss ur prayer is your fault because ur indulge in it so strongly music does not forces u to indulge in itself if you have faith in Allah u would have thought tht its prayer time and u should turn the music off but you did’nt it was not music’s fault it was shaytaan who was there it was not music so plz try to evaluate things with all perspectives and with open heart not only with open eyes watever SM thinks is his point of view watever u think is urs he don’t forces u to beleive watever he says its ur fault if u beleive blindly watever is said u have time to think abt music but there r much more things which demands our attention he(SM) is not only portraying extremism but also many other things but u only see wat u want to see if he says tht JJ did’nt consulted him so wats wrong in it he gave his 16 yrs of his life to him and in return wat he is just asking 4 just a consult if JJ respected him sincerely he would have toild him before tht SM did’nt have read it in newspaper so wwhere the heckk the JJ respect has gone at tht time at his most imp. decision of his life plz if u cannt support him than dont discourage him

By: rafoo chakkar

rafoo chakkar — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 22:34:22 +0000

i just want to say tht whether music is allowed in islam or not i think we are just wasting our time in discussing tht matter which does not effect our lives in a particular way if it does not give any thing usefull to us and if its not good at all than it does not harm us too music is associated to some particular poeple who can sing,play musical instruments or can compose music because thay have aesthetics in tht particular field we all can’t do things like this because we all dont have tht sense or we are not talented tht much we can only listen to music and as far as im concerned it does give me a sense to evaluate things in a better way for example the song “ALLAH HOO” if u listen to tht song of film KKL sung by saeen zahoor he has sung this sung tremendously the way he said ALLAH at the start of the song is amazing and beautiful and with the blend of beautiful music it is a great song but you poeple cant understand tht because you will just think whatever it is it is haram but with due respect there is no strong hadith or ayat in which it is said tht music is haram the hadith reffered by VOID it is said tht people will make lawfull fornication like the use of musical instrument. so in this hadith it is not said tht music is haram or singing is haram so this disscussion is a waste of time i just wanted to say tht we have so much time to think abt tht thing is haram or halal which does not have any direct link with us and even does not harm us in any way if u miss ur prayer is your fault because ur indulge in it so strongly music does not forces u to indulge in itself if you have faith in Allah u would have thought tht its prayer time and u should turn the music off but you did’nt it was not music’s fault it was shaytaan who was there it was not music so plz try to evaluate things with all perspectives and with open heart not only with open eyes watever SM thinks is his point of view watever u think is urs he don’t forces u to beleive watever he says its ur fault if u beleive blindly watever is said u have time to think abt music but there r much more things which demands our attention he(SM) is not only portraying extremism but also many other things but u only see wat u want to see if he says tht JJ did’nt consulted him so wats wrong in it he gave 16 yrs of his life to him and in return wat he is asking 4 just a consultation if JJ respected him sincerely he would have told him before so that SM did’nt have to read it in newspaper and got shocked he got shocked coz he thought he had some place in JJ’s life but he was wrong JJ took advantage of his reputation in media and became successful and when it was his exam to prove his sincerity wat he did? where the heckk the JJ respect has gone at tht time when he has to make the most important decision of his life plz if u cant support him than dont discourage him he and his wirk is not harming u or not even anny1 else

By: admin

admin — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 05:59:36 +0000

Chakkar: in Quran ALlah says that Muslims can only get comform in Zikr of Allah therefore I don’t need to listen any song to bring Allah closer to me while I have Quran for this purpse.

It’s silly that you are saying his action can’t harm anyone. HE IS TWISTING ISLAMIC teaching and you are saying he’s harmless? Tomorrow you will say that Qadyanis were also harmless? Duh, I ain’t willing to reply you further.

By: admin

admin — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 06:01:24 +0000

JJ was not Shaoib’s slave. JJ was talented. If shoaib had not promoted him then someone else could. Why is like that SM couldn’t bring anyone else in parallel of jj in last 7 years? just because he couldn’t find one like him. *nuff said*.

JJ reads naat more beautifully than singing songs. His CDs were sold more than his singing albums and I had asked this from a local audio shopkeeper.

By: Imran Haider

Imran Haider — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 07:29:16 +0000

It seems that our nation has devided into two different thinkings.
well it was already devided but now it is clear to every one.
There are many posts about movie, some peaple support this movie and some people not.
I am not a ISLAMIC SCHOLAR or not a religious person but i m a Muslim. Question raised after this movie are those which 90% Pakistanies already wanted to aske…
tell me one thing there are hundreds of movies released in Pakistan every year and every movie have so much nudity and music is compulsory part of it…
every tv channel except some islamic chanels play music, music is part of every drama serial and they play it in background…
We mostly have music in our marriage cermonies…
mean this music is part of our life…. but i have never seen people discussin music like this … nevery peaple did..
there shud be fatwa about every chanel played today…and fatwa shud say that it plays music and it is gunah to play tv and watch such chanel at home…
even geo, ary, ptv palyes music ..
but none of maulana or ulma have given fatwa against them…
Why??????????????????
Painting and pics are part of every field of our life…
even we have to puc a pic on the passport of reupic Pakistan…
but no one has given fatwa about this…
If you say that these things are not allowed then why people has not stopped??
tell me?
but when some like shaoib mansoor maked a movie about this big issue people are saying bad comments about him…
i think he has done some thing which should be done a long time ago…
it is just because of him that we are getting such information today…
don’t say that we shud’t watch this movie…
let ppl watch and decide with help of some scholars that wat is gud and wat is bad
wat is allowed and wat is not allowed
yaar it has been more then 60 years of independance of Pakistan mean Islamic republic of Pakistan and we are to able to find wat shud be done and wat shud be not…
Rather then stopping people to watch this movie we shud think about the issue raised by this movie
and one thing i want to tell u all peaple this movie is so much based on reality…
and majority of our nation thinks like shoaib mansoor
so just stop saying it bad bad bad…
come with proper details about this issue

By: waqas

waqas — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:33:11 +0000

plz give me a reference … yay kahan per aaya tah .. mean where it publish ?? kisi channel per kaha tah ya phir kisi article mein Publish howa tah ??

Shoaib Mansoor comments…
“I have never believed that God could hate the two most beautiful things he has given to mankind…. Music and painting.”

plzz me waiting for ur reply
mail me plz ..
here is my id .. waqpac@hotmail.com

plzz reply me on my id …

By: admin

admin — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:56:15 +0000

Imran: If you don’t want to accept Quran and Hadith then you can do whatever you want but you asking WHY THIS not allowed then it’s not making sense as I know you and your parents would have raised any issue about uniform in school that why do you wear it. Relgiion means set of rules and regulations. If you don’t follow it then fine but don’t ask to change islam for sake of few people.

Regarding nudity stuff and other movies, they are also bad but shoaib is being criticized more BECAUSE HE TWISTED ISLAMIC TEACHINGS which was not done by other directors

Waqas: please visit the site inthenameofgod.com and visit the link “DIRECTORS STATEMENT”

By: A. Abrar

A. Abrar — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:04:27 +0000

Mr. Adnan I was shocked to read your comment along with other fellows who accused Shoaib Mansoor as being not a true Muslim. How your opinion about a person like Shoaib Mansoor can undergo a change? He is a living legend. Men like him born once. I think his movie ‘Khuda kay liye’ is a good step for the awakening of the Muslims. It would definitely prove to be a great help to free the Muslims for the wrong conceptions of Islam. Islam does not allow extremism. Our holy prophet (p.b.u.h) said that Islam gives us the lesson of moderation. Does Islam preach that one should carry weapons to spread it and slaughter people ruthlessly? Do you consider such people who are doing all this as true Muslims?
As far Junaid Jamshed is concerned, I myself was a fanatic fan of his. He was the only great pop singer Pakistan ever had and was the only singer whom I loved to listen to. The news that he gave up singing was really shocking to me. I felt really disappointed. How many other hearts would have been broken by his this decision. Now just imagine how Shoaib Mansoor would have felt when he lost one of his closest friends with whom he spent sixteen years. Sixteen years are a big slice of life of course. I don’t think that in his movie he is criticizing Junaid Jamshed but he is trying to make people aware of the harms which are being done to our country and our society and which are still in progress because of that extremism.

By: admin

admin — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:34:32 +0000

I don’t know why the heck you guys don’t make efforts to read his goddamn statement about Junaid and about Islam? whatever he said was NOT in Islam. He made statment that “I don’t believe God would hate painting and music”, its blasphemy, he’s challenging God that how did he Dare to give statement against Music and painting because it’s loved by Shoaib?

Junaid was not anyone’s property. When it’s preached by others that religion is personal thing then it’s Junaid’s own choice to decide about his life. When Islam came in Makkah, several infidels quit their past lives and became Muslims. Now people like you would complain why people at that time left their old pagan religion and become Muslims, after all their families gave them so many years? Duh! come with better logic.

ANd sorry I don’t buy your theory. Shoaib’s movie was funded by Pakistan Govt, the govt who’s busy in killing own people in the name of war on terror and demolishing masjids. Bush yesterday admitted that Hafsa operation was done to obey order of USA. So if you still think such govt COULD do something for Muslims then better you take a glass of wine and get Mast.

Your worship about Shoiab just shows that our pseudo educated people are not less ignorant than our villagers who are even ready to sell their izzat for sake of Makhdooms and Sains.

Have fun! and do make yourself used to read papers. USA has given indication to attack on Pakistan now I see how your Shoaib and his agenda save Pakistan. In the end these “terrorists” would be saving pakistan and all enlightened freaks would be hiding behind them just like it happened in Lebonan during Gucci revolution.

By: admin

admin — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:42:50 +0000

and Abrar, why were you shocked? Is Shoaib some godlike figure that he can’t be criticized? here people don’t leave Molvi, hadiths or even an entire religion then what’s his worth?

the fact is Shoaib has got exposed with his cunning attitude about Junaid. Junaid kept praising him in every program and in return he declared Junaid a fundamentalist??

Just imagine if you say NO to some of your friend due to some genuine reason and he starts mudslinging , how would you feel? good or hurt? I must be sure that junaid would have god hurt but then Junaid is on path where He would be getting more comfort so Inshallah Junaid will be safe.

By: ferah

ferah — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:54:35 +0000

salam
u knw wat,people like shoib,who r so much involve in dis wolrd n truly believe dat dis life iz to b enjoyed,(zindagi aik baar milti hai,so 1 shud fully enjoy it DAHH!)2 make dem realize dat dis life is a mere test,exam iz not easy(if day think skippin cmplsry questions day can pass it,u cant help dem.
day r on da other extreme,wat they believe (modernizing islam)has been injected in r society by jews through decades strugle,since khilafet has been declining n destroyed
(1918-1924)
ALLAH jissay chahay hadayet dy or jissay chahay gumrah rakhay

By: ferah

ferah — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:13:47 +0000

salam
there iz another angle,besides da fact dat shoib.m wants 2 show dat da extremist r confuzin da youth,n muzik iz not haram,so n so,but he also emphasized on da situation of muslims after 9/11, dat day r being opresd n killed just bcoz of being muslim.
maybe generally locals wont agree upon his view abt ‘muzik n islam’(almost evry1 knows musik is forbidn,but still v hav so much of it in r lives) but will think abt islam or r present situation …hope u getin ma point (kuch tou sochain deen k baray may)
and u knw wat in ur artical u used sum rude words 4 shoib,wen da other party iz already negative/disagrees wid u,den u shud use sum technique n b polite, use aqall

By: rafoo chakkar

rafoo chakkar — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:41:18 +0000

i want to ask you only 1 thing have you seen the movie KKL?

By: twomanyface

twomanyface — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:10:52 +0000

think everyone here is missing the point and it that is troubling, and that is perhaps what Shoaib Mansoor is pointing to when he is implying that hatred music and the arts should not become what defines us as Muslims. I do feel that the society in Pakistan has an issue with access of music, every where you go you can hear music blasting. It can be tagged as a sign of a society loosing its focus. May be this is the time to identify the problems that are plaguing the social structure there. But Shoib Mansoor is not the cause of it and Junaid Jamshaid is nor the cure for it. I fail to understand how promoting music or banning music is going to fix muslim ummah’s issues of the day, and therefore I feel that Adnan’s and everyone who is so bent on proving that music is haram, would get from it. The position is that we have all of a sudden realized this one commandment and we need to get everyone to abide by it, and it is going to be end to all evil, and we will be saved.
I agree that Islam is a lifestyle, and not just the symbolic practice of it. Can you tell me what difference were the Taleban able to make in a society that they were left incharge of for over a decade, except for proving to the world what a bunch of imbeciles they were. What aspect of life did they set an example in the world, to cause the non-Muslim world realize their errors? What kind of a legacy did they leave for the generations to follow, except of destruction and mayhem?
All I am trying to say is please do not waste so much energy on one point and keep beating it. Haraam is too strong a word, and it should not be used for Music or the Arts. I am not promoting music all I am saying is that we have worse problems facing us, and this issue is not worth wasting so much energy. Adnan, just tell me whether you agree with me or not?
Secondly, I think if the Saudi mullah’s are not running about the streets screaming haraam, haraam, haraam, at every music and video store then its not worth the effort. One thing I am sure of, if music and movies were Haraam, to the true sense of Haraam in Islam, there is no way in the world music would be sold legally in the shops of Saudi Arabia. Trust me, there are music played in Makkah and Medina, and it is sold there. You just don’t see it being abused like this it is abused in Pakistan, where an individual listening to music in his car, or anywhere else for that matter, finds it his personal responsibility that everyone else needs to listen to it. That I think is very wrong. But if the Alims, Muttawas in Saudi Arabia felt that music is haraam, and root of all evil, then there is no way Mohammed Abdo would be able to play to Sold Out concerts there. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12178346
All I am saying is Haraam is a too strong word to be proving it. There may be difference of opinion among Islamic scholars, and in my opinion where ever there are multiple opinions among scholars, one should not try to prove one or the other with such vigor. It is not what you are saying is wrong or right, it is the way you are doing it makes it wrong. The overemphasis of your argument is quite pointless. You are constantly telling the opposing arguments to “go read it yourself – it is in the Quran and Hadith … you will realize weather you are right or worng”. In my example above, I have tried to prove, that the Ulamah’s are not in agreement about music being haram. As far as painting is concerned, the images of creatures is wrong. There is a lot of grey to be arguing over these subjects.
Adnan, you have said in you several posts that read for yourself what Shoiab Mansoor is saying – “its in plain English”, And I have read it several times, and I still can’t see how you can deduce what ever you have said about him – and his opinions about Islam and Junaid Jamshaid. I think all he is saying that in his opinion JJ is wrong and the way he choose to present his case, is wrong, and he does not agree with it. As far as I can see and I would not criticize either for doing what they are doing, because for a healthy society we need opposing ideas, to nurture your future generations. If we don’t, then we will loose focus of the middle path, which Quraan Hadith so much emphasize on. Trust me, there are more Hadith and commandment in the Quraan emphasizing the importance of the middle path, then calling for banning of the music or the arts.
I would suggest that you go and watch the movie, and then give your opinion whether what Shoaib is trying to indoctrinate the generations to come is wrong or right. You have obviously heard what JJ has to say. One thing I would say, is that I feel that your opinion is very biased, and you are not willing to assess what the other side has to say, and that is probably not the attitude you should have when watching the movie. I live in the US, and I am impatiently awaiting the release of the movie here, and once I watch it, we can further discuss it.
Last. I would like to add for everyone else who has been engaged on this blog, that I have always held the opinion, even when I was really young, that religious conviction is a luxury that not everyone can afford. Majority of the population in Pakistan is busy trying to make a living, with their sweat and blood. These people surely, do not have access to music, movies, arts, or even the internet, their issues are real, and the things we are clamoring are not even a consideration for them. What we need to fight for at a grassroots level is injustice, corruption, and individuals’ right to exist in peace, and that is what would make us an exemplary society. That is how we would be doing service to our people, to our country and to the rest of the world, and that would perhaps please our Allah more than just picking out a commandment or two, and forcing everyone to follow it.
Adnan, please tell me of the points above, specifically what do you agree and disagree with? Actually, I would like everyone to give their input.

By: admin

admin — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:49:55 +0000

After going thru all comments by respected participants, I just notice that one that NONE of them bothered to 1)read my orignal post with REFERRENCEs of Islamic sources 2)comments by other people as well. there are 3 main things which I tried to discuss.

a)Shoaib’s reaction on JUNAID’s Personal decision which I believe was very extreme and unjust because JJ is free soul like other

b)Shoaib’s Statment which is officially up on movie’s official site which is mentioned under the lik “DIRECTOR’s STATEMENT”

c)Shoaib’s Blashpmeous statment that “I don’t believe God could hate music and painting”. Its really a blasphemous. Just like I godforbid say,’I can’t believe God could ask us to starve in the name of ROZA”. This is ignorance and offending Islamic teaching.

Those who are suggesting me to watch Movie, I would sure try to grab a copy but as it’s said in Urdu, “Lifafa dekh kar Khat ka Matan bhapna”, so It wouldbe pretty lame that If you guys are saying that Shoaib says something else in Movie and maek some other statment in his website. Those who have watched MOVIE have told that Movie has made fun of Beared, Pardah, called Music and Painting Legitimate.

All I know that Islam was given by Allah rather Shoaib so definitely I don’t need to see Islam through the eyes of Shoaib or ANYONE else.

I read some funny comments on other site that some song of mive brings closer to Allah.LOL. While in QUran Allah says tht only ZIkr of Allah could bring closer

Please do Read concerned Books, Quran and Hadith. Noone asked you to listen me either. Why does it irk you people to read Quran adn Hadith? Please read them, Khuda k liye!

I don’t need to give any further explaination.. All I know that it’s pretty sick to associate our own fantasies in the name of Islam. In future someone would rise and say tht Sharab is Halal because it was halal for sometime in the era of Muhammad(saw). So don’t fool out yourself. I know that those who wan to follow Islam in true sense wouldn’t make any excuse at all.