Shoaib Mansoor’s fanatism"In the name of God"
Related:Shoaib K liye-Webmaster removed the link of Shoaib’s statement against Junaid.
Who doesn’t know Shoaib Mansoor? He’s an all rounder genius. Writer,poet,producer,director and what not? I was a big fan of Shoaib till this evening until I read this news in Jang and saddened me a lot after knowing this that his upcoming movie is the reaction and an answer to Junaid Jamshed who has left music and has opted the path of learning and teaching Islam. I was in great shock and this shock was very very natural because I always considered Shoaib an Intelligent and sensible person!. I actually had not believed jang news and I just visit the official website of his upcoming movie KHUDA KEY LIYE . I visited the link Director’s Statment and this is what I found. I am just quoting the excerpt of his entire which is the main reason behind the movie and also it shows his anger for JJ.
One morning i was going through a newspaper and i saw my friend junaid jamshed’s interview in it. After looking at his new attire in the photograph that ace the article published in it. I could not stop myself from reading it. The more i read the more sad i felt. He had announced quiting music after being convinced that it was “haram”. It really shook me very badly. I have never believed that God could hate the two most beautiful things he has given to mankind…. Music and painting.why are these the two most beautiful things i felt that a confused man like junaid had no right to confuse thousands of his youthful followers. I had given him sixteen years of my life as a true friend and had played my role in his professional life to the best of my abilities. How could he throw away our sixteen years just like that without even consulting me? I felt that it was my duty to rectify the damage he had done to the already suffering society under the influence of fundamentalists. I thought that the need of the hour was to study the whole mindset which gave birth to such wrong notions about islam. I have no doubt in my mind that instead of taking the present age fourteen hundred years back we have to bring islam to the present age. The best service to islam today is to make it applicable to modern day requirements.
Before I say anything about Islam or what is actual Islam, I would like to discuss the statement which he gave in “grief” that Junaid left him all alone. To be honest I was in more grief after knowing the actual story behind his project. No doubt I was also thrilled about his project because lots of people were saying that it would be something different and being an old timer fan of Shoaib’s work, I was willing to watch movie, infact I was willing to watch more when I learnt that it was made in the background of 9/11. I got interested more when initially I heared that JJ would also work in it but later he refused because he had changed his path. In his interview he clearly considered Shoaib his mentor and always considered him his “Mohsin” and despite of difference in religious opinion, junaid always showed respected towards Junaid. Now the things have come out why junaid would have said NO or did shoaib change the story after junaid’s refusal because initially Shoaib had approached to Junaid even after his TABLEEGHI ATTIRE. How was it possible that Junaid could work in a movie in which he and his teacher being cursed? So definitely he changed the main theme of story after his refusal and made it as a reply against him,his maslak and his religion practice. Music has always been a controversial topic in Islamic society that whether it’s halal or haram. I wouldn’t go into debate whether it’s haram or halal but I would just quote Shoaib’s own statment about music as well as Painting:
I have never believed that God could hate the two most beautiful things he has given to mankind…. Music and painting.
Yes Music is beautiful and Magical as well. It’s so magical that it can make you lost for hours, can mesmerize you and make you unaware about your surrounding. I was a great fan of music and I could say that I had sense to understand music. I would also like to add that I was a die hard fan of Kishore Kumar. His magical voice forced me to listen him late night. I was also big fan of Pancham(R.D.Burman) and Gulzar and I always tried not to miss a single piece created by any of them. I had a good collection of Ravi Shankar’s music. I used to listen Zakir Hussain’s Tabla. I was crazy about Jagjit, etc etc. More on that I used to play keyboard and knew what an Octave is. So many times I never offered prayers, not even at home, I was not used to offer maghrib and Isha prayer,yeah I seldom offered Asar and Zohar, forget about Zohar. The point is music has something which kept me away from my God daily. I don’t make statement that every MUSLIM feels same,its all about my personal experience which I think is very relevant with other Muslims as well who are/were crazy about Music. I remember I used to remember most of songs by heart that some of the songs are still in my mind, so yeah it’s magical like a black magic. So even if there is no mentioning in Quran or Hadith, my personal experience is enough to make me believe that Music could keep a crazy music lover away from your prayers and can make him to get inclined more towards world issues. So many times Quran warned followers NOT to get lost in world issues as if there is no return to Allah. My involvement in music is just an example of getting involved in music and forgetting God and not performing Ibadat with purity which is definitely not compatible with Islam. About pictures, the ignorance demonstrated by Shoaib Mansoor is unacceptable. I mean, how an intelligent man like Shoaib Mansoor could make such statment that God couldn’t hate music and painting? Shoaib had time to study the “mindset” but not Islamic resources like Hadiths and Quran to know what’s actually being taught? How ridiculous he is! I would just quote a single hadith about painting of Living objects specially men and animals.
Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: The Prophet said, “The painters of these pictures will be punished on the Day of Resurrection, and it will be said to them, ‘Make alive what you have created(Bukhari.9:647)
Another is:
Narrated ‘Aisha(RA):
I stuffed for the Prophet a pillow decorated with pictures (of animals) which looked like a Namruqa (i.e. a small cushion). He came and stood among the people with excitement apparent on his face. I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is wrong?” He said, “What is this pillow?” I said, “I have prepared this pillow for you, so that you may recline on it.” He said, “Don’t you know that angels do not enter a house wherein there are pictures; and whoever makes a picture will be punished on the Day of Resurrection and will be asked to give life to (what he has created)?”
And For your information, prohibition of living creatures is not only in Islam. This is strictly prohibited in Bible as well. According to Ten Commandments:
Do not make an image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above
So this clause clearly prohibits making impression of humans as well as Prophets. If today Christians make sketches and idols of Jesus(AS) then its their fault and they are certainly violating their own book.
Keeping all these religious issues aside, the thing which I despised more about Shoaib that he called Junaid a follower of extremists who are also called fundamentalists. Sir! Lets agree that Junaid is a fundamentalist and an extremist with tiny mind, then, What are you? If Junaid belongs to a group which can’t comprehend things properly and not liberal than what are you? You are being more fundamentalist,extremist and personal than him. In every interview Junaid thanked you but what you did in return?started mudslinging? Shame on you Mr.Shoaib! At one side I hear all the time by pseudo liberals like you that religion is a personal matter while on other side you got irked because Junaid didn’t consult you? What the heck are you? His dad? His guardian or His God? Did you ever notice your own attitude Mr. arrogant? So many times you would have done things against God’s will. Did God ask you like ‘How did you dare to go against me? I created you! since you disobeyed me so no meal for you’. Get a life Mr.Mansoor, you are sounding like a moron while raising finger on someone else’s personal decision. JJ once said that Shoaib never demanded money which Vital signs and then JJ earned from concerts. Were you waiting for this moment so that you can taunt him and curse him? What a selfish freak you are!
When I heared that Shoaib was making a movie about Muslims, I thought he would present something positive and real about Islam but I got disappointed that his work is not “Revolutionary” and “new”. He’s whining about same topic which I had been hearing/reading/watching for long time!
The movie has not been launched as yet but I am sure that you wouldn’t have shown the other side of junaid that is, as a sucessfull businessman and a preacher. You could be credible if Mr.Shoaib if you had shown that how a singer preferred to follow Islam after leaving lavish life and then got sucessful in spreading is religion and running a business. If you had thought on these lines then you could be respected a lot but I think many people liek me who were your fan would get disappointed after knowing the reason of movie and then the content. To be honest, I pay no respect for you anymore. Not because what you believe about religion but because the “reason” which forced you to make a movie. Thankyou Sir for proving my point that leftists are more conservative and narrow-minded than right wing extremists’ and fundamentalist. Nothing wrong in being a fundamentalist because this is in your own words which you mentioned as “Director’s statment”:
When i took it to my producers, unilever, they could not believe what i was upto. They found the story extremely controversial and dangerous. In that state of mind and confusion they kept me hanging on for about three quarters of a year before finally backing out. I went to pepsi’s management but they too had a similar reply…” being an American company we cant participate in something against America
Did you see? THIS is called fundamentalism that is ,’don’t leave basics’. The PEPSI management was ready to leave you but not going to make anything against America. Yes same America which is called secular and advanced. Now why didn’t you use the term EXTREEMIST for them? i know you can’t because if you had then who would feed you? I wish you would have learnt a lesson from those Amerikis who didn’t want to go against their country. I wonder why didn’t you go to musharraf? he could fund you easily since it was according to his agenda? Mr Shoaib further says:
I have no doubt in my mind that instead of taking the present age fourteen hundred years back we have to bring islam to the present age. The best service to islam today is to make it applicable to modern day requirements.
A separate debate whether Islam is compatible with Modern age or not. I know only one thing that Islam is NOT a Sunday religion, its way of life, a religion in which a person is rewarded with SAWAB even if he just smiles to his parents early in the morning nad removes the stone or anyother thing from road which could give trouble to others. No other religion is flexible like Islam. Islam is not obsolete yes Islam followers are keep going in ancient time when Jahalat(Ignorance) was common before Islam. As far as making Islam applicable in modern day requirements, Sir, your reason of music is very foolish when you declare it compatible with modern day requirement. Music is an ancient thing rather modern. Being a computer engineer, I could give example of C and then C++ language. C++ didn’t reject all the principles and rules given by K&R when they wrote the 1st compiler of C language. Making C++ compatible with modern needs doesn’t mean basic concepts of the language like pointers,conditional compiling etc were removed. If one wants to apply Islam in modern day then he can use latest technologies to spread word of God rather disobeying word of God in the name of modernism. I find a fallacy in your entire rant! Today you also proved that a person who is expert in his field doesn’t mean he’s expert in religious matter as well. I am not a perfect religion implementer but what I feel that ignorance shouldn’t be an excuse. Whatever I mentioned is not rocket science. All Islamic sources including Quran is available online for reading and research. All is required is effort which an individual needs to put to find truth. All I can say, May Allah give you hidayat and then give to me as well. I would definitely want you on other side and busy in spreading word of God rather busy in increasing gap between Muslims-Ameen.
Shoaib Mansoor’s Image Credit: Adil Bhai
p.s: My rant might hurt shoaib lovers but do keep this in my mind that I was also one of his fan,specially after watching ALPHA BRAVO and CHARLIE, I had become his admirer but as I said somewhere that when an Arts student try to speak about Quantum Physics and declare certain parts wrong or right without studying thoroughly then we often experience such lame statements like given by Shoaib Mansoor.
Related Post: Junaid Jamshed Interview about His Life and Music
Technorati tags: Junaid Jamshed, Pakistan.Islam, Music, Extremism, Shoab Mansoor, religion, In the name of God, Secular extreemism
July 9th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Adnan,
Well said.
Some times when I read Quran, I come acroos a ayat which roughly mean ‘…and their earnings lead them to this way…’ or something similar. In one plain word, I would call people like him LOSERS.
BTW, Abu-Jahil was considered very intelligent at the time of Prophet it was his ignorance to Islam and Muhammad (Peace be upon him) that earned him this TITLE.
People like these think that Junaid Jamshed should listen to him rather than Allah and his messenger.
May Allah give them guidance and to every one of us. Ameen.
I can’t imagine how hard it would be for Junaid Jamshed.
July 10th, 2007 at 8:10 am
very well written.
seems natural too, full of emotions.
July 11th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Shoaib Mansoor is partially right. Famous Islamic Scholor who is the first to find the letters of Nabi Karim in 20th century and publish them and the first Muslim to translate Quran in French, opening door for thousands of French men and women to accept Islam came to Pakistan in late 20th century and gave a series of lectures at University of Bahawalpur. On a question he said, only music which is played at an idol (but) is haram but music in itself is not haram. He asked people to show a single hadis declaring music haram.
As far as painting is concerned, Allah SWT is the best Painter. One only has to see the sky at daybreak and dusk to see how Superb His Painting is. Butterflies, Doves and Peacock and thousands of flowers and Fishes. Indeed there could be no painter as Perfect as Him. So if He Wants to Keep the Art only upto Him, we can only bow our head to His decision. Islam means complete submission to Allah’s Will and Allah Does Not Accept less than complete submission.
M J Iqbal
July 11th, 2007 at 10:12 am
May ALLAH bless you Adnan. Keep up the good work.
From my point of view I pray that Allah give us righteous direction even to Shoib Mansoor, M J Iqbal (look at his comments) and the rest of _modern_ people of islam.
Just a request, if you do not practice ISLAM then let others do it, atleast keep yourself from spreading sin for the sack of your interpretation of GOD not ALLAH.
ALLAH is what we have been taught by Quran and Ahadis not by Shoib Mansoor, Ahmed Shaikh Memon (me) or Adnan Siddiqui.
May Allah bless all of us, and keep all of us away from the reach of those for whom ALLAH has decided not to bless. Ameen.
July 11th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Adnan !
Great writeup.
Regards,
Kashif Hafeez
July 11th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
The Beneficent, the Merciful.
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
Keep us on the right path.
The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
July 15th, 2007 at 7:33 am
Shoaib Mansoor is not the only person behind this all , If you c Geo Tv is fully supporting him .. Why ….? the reason is very simple , they have an agenda to complete and they all are working on it.
July 16th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
I was also one of the biggest fans of Shoaib Mansoor and was waiting eagerly for this movie. But after reading his statement on movie’s website, I was extremely disappointed. I completely agree with Adnan. You wrote what any Muslim with common sense and logic could think.
July 16th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Faisal, regardless of who’s behind the project, the statement given by SM is his own thought because he raised similar concerns when JJ joined tableeghi jamat in 2000 and shoaib was mad at that time.
@shehla: thanks and keep visiting:-)
July 17th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
I wonder how the liberals have become experts in interpretation of islam and fiqh, they want to change islamic values according to their needs instead of following the religion which has been completed 1400 years ago. They should understand that extremism from their part will ignite more extremism and the fire will spread to the entire country. I am disappointed by Shoaib Mansoor’s fatwa about music and painting. He needs some lessons from maulana Tariq Jameel
July 19th, 2007 at 10:20 am
Adnan you comprehensively explained every thing about music, painting, JJ and SM’s minset. People like SM actually look at Islam from western eyes. When they are in a mood to read about Islam they first read alleged controversial issues as projected by west. Their aim is not for understating Islam thoroughly but only to gather controversial information and project them in front of others. They never change themselves but they change Quran.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:06 am
Music and Paintings are haram …
Now I understand why muslims didn’t innovate anything in this era. We didn’t build companies like Cannon, Sony, Apple and how about Adobe .. anybody.
Our minds are closed for good .. atleast for now, until a Massiah will come .. so lets wait and don’t sing songs while waiting because they are haram too … ;(
peace
July 20th, 2007 at 5:37 am
If innovation is about building companies, Einstein just rolled in his grave.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:45 am
haris, since you dont consider haram,tell me what have you invented yet which could be helpful for Pakistanis?
Ignorance shouldnt be an excuse. Jews who are major players in the field o technology are religiously inclined as well. Speilberg DOESNT offend his relgiion in Indian Jones like Mr.Mansoor.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:46 am
ROSHAN KHAYAL KI THEME per ja rahi hai jesa mujay lag raha hai movie dheknay kay baad pata chalay ga abhi tu sirf kay hi sakta hon cause is director nay Junaid Jamshed ko bura kaha hai kay osnay 16 yrs ka music ka profession chora mujay baghair batay yeah is ka baap hai jo isko bata kar choray ga aur yeah kayna kay kuda bhala 2 khoobsurat cheezoo ko ko haram kiyn karay ga means painting aur music jis ki base per JJ nay music chora aur yeah bhi kayna kay JJ apni nai image say SOCIETY ko DAMAGE karaha hai means fundamentalist hokar islam follow kar kay app society ko damage kartay hai herat hai esi souch hai movie kay director ki …….
July 20th, 2007 at 7:36 am
For you kind information Haris Khan. the founder of almost all inventions were Muslims and they people didn’t really listen music. not our minds our closed for goods, your’s mind is closed for goods because there are movies and songs.already.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:17 am
i agree with Mr. Abdullah. There are ruls you have to follow in ISLAM, if you dont then it didnt mean that those rules are not exist.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:55 am
Let there be no compulsion in religion. (2:256)
Whoever wills, let him believe; and whoever does not will, let him disbelieve. (18.29)
July 20th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Ravian,
my friend thanks for quoting these verses but may I tell youn that those verses actually talks about non-muslims that MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT force them to accept Islam? I wonder you read it yourself in Quran or just heared from others? let me quote the full aya:
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
Allah is the ally of those who believe. He brings them out from darknesses into the light. And those who disbelieve - their allies are Taghut. They take them out of the light into darknesses. Those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide eternally therein (Quran 256-257)
In Urdu:
دین (اسلام) میں زبردستی نہیں ہے ہدایت (صاف طور پر ظاہر اور) گمراہی سے الگ ہو چکی ہے تو جو شخص بتوں سے اعتقاد نہ رکھے اور خدا پر ایمان لائے اس نے ایسی مضبوط رسی ہاتھ میں پکڑ لی ہے جو کبھی ٹوٹنے والی نہیں اور خدا (سب کچھ) سنتا اور (سب کچھ) جانتا ہے
جو لوگ ایمان لائے ہیں ان کا دوست خدا ہے کہ اُن کو اندھیرے سے نکال کر روشنی میں لے جاتا ہے اور جو کافر ہیں ان کے دوست شیطان ہیں کہ ان کو روشنی سے نکال کر اندھیرے میں لے جاتے ہیں یہی لوگ اہل دوزخ ہیں کہ اس میں ہمیشہ رہیں گے ۞35
Where it’s written that Muslim is free to accept rules of God or not. Those who don’t accept are NOT muslims. If you are saying that Shoaib is free to accept Islam or not then you are right to quote this verse.
Also, if I take your interpetition that ONE is free to practise religion then why is shoaib imposing his views on JJ and getting mad at him? Please don’t quote things out of context
July 20th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Well, the movie is based on the theme of “Enlightened Moderation” …every person related to media is in the favor of this movie…but i hope for the best…this movie will be soon banned….inshaAllah….n Shoaib Mansoor will never be succeeded in his mission….
he’s a real LOSER !
July 20th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Let me apologize in advance, if I end up offending someone here. My intent is not to offend, but to reflect as the author has done so.
WOW … I am utterly disappointed at this article. Very very sad show of interpretation and assessment. I am not sure if this was a critique of the movie, that obviously the author has not seen yet, or a weak attempt at character assassination of Shoaib Mansoor, or damage his credibility in telling a story, that someone needs to tell. Perhaps an attempt to strengthen the belief structure preached by Junaid Jamshaid, and confusing the stance that Shoaib Mansoor had taken.
For all the others that responded to the article above – I feel that they probably never went back to read it twice, and like good muslims, they went on commending the author for a job well done. A classic representation of true muslims in our world today, i.e. if they think that if someone is saying something that is more acceptable in the main stream Islamic faith, say MashAllah; without thinking about it twice.
My impression of this article as I kept on reading it as I went along was, that this guy is way off, and getting carried away with his emotions. I feel, we as muslims in the world today are more driven by our emotions about Islam, then the teachings of Islam. And that shows in this article.
First off, if Junaid Jamshaid is the person that I think he is, he would not have said the things about Shoaib Mansoor, which the author has taken the liberty of saying, and in the manner he went on reinforcing his personal belief by attacking another person, even to the point he is degrading a human being (SM), by over criticizing him. I am not sure if I understand what credibility the author had, in assuming that it was ‘ok’ for him to do this, other than that there was a lot of show of emotion, and he thought that he had to say something in response to SMs interview. In reading the excerpt from SMs interview, I feel that he was probably feeling betrayed by a close friend, for not confiding in him in such a major life altering decision. He probably thought that JJ probably owed that much to him, and may be he was wrong in expecting that. Normal natural reaction, I did not try to read too much into it. I am not going to attack SM or JJ, in either of their opinions, because I think that I probably hold a biased opinion on the matter too.
The author, Adnan, blatantly got personal on the subject, and in the process got very judgmental about the whole issue with SM, the movie, and his interview. I guess I should ask him to research and let us know, under the Islamic principals what right does one have to pass a judgment on another human being? In our main stream practice of the faith these days, we are very quick to judge any one who fails to meet our standards, and not necessarily Allah’s standards. By the same process, Adnan, the author, assumed that when SM was referring to painting, he was referring to paintings of animals, creatures, and other beings. Whereas, the two Hadith he has referenced, are particular targeted towards imagery of other creations. I think he was really trying to make a point, but could not gather substantial background information, and therefore used what he could easily use to make a point and attack SM.
I am utterly disturbed by Adnan’s sense of reason and logic. It seems like, according to Adnan, the only logic and reason there is Adnan’s. Please do not use terms that you do not fully comprehend. The most confused terms are reason and logic, especially in the Muslim world. All I am going to say about it is that, in my experience, reason and logic are very relative terms. Therefore one should not assume that their set of logic and reason applies to everything.
I am sorry to read that such a loosely put argument was commended by so many. What should have ideally happened is that the article should instigate a dialogue, and other should have provided some credible input to the argument. But I think that is perhaps too much to ask of muslims these days, because they fear that they don’t want to think or ponder in the direction of something, that may be categorized as ‘sin’, and therefore would rather not think at all. On the other hand they feel it their religious duty to attack anything they feel maybe considered anti-religious. Narrow-mindedness is not having a set of values that one feels strong about, but narrow-mindedness is having the opinion about ones reason and logic infallible.
I am not sure what the author was trying to prove when he said that he could not pray when he used to listen to music, and now that he has stopped listening to music he can pray. What is it that he is trying to prove, is this a suppose to be an exemplary stance to prove a point. Even though I have come across hundreds of people giving similar examples in the past, but I have always disagreed with them. I am not sure who to take the example Adnan gives, but my impression of it is that he was probably confused when he did not pray, and praying has not helped him any. I am sorry, I am getting a little personal, here. But I am not sure how to respond to it. I have always been praying, five times a day, ever since I can remember. I am not one of those people who have recently realized Islam, and feel the need to be a good muslim, and the only way to be a good muslim that I could figure was to start praying. I do not want to give you the wrong impression, there have been patches in my life when I did not pray for months on end, but there have been always patches where I would make an effort to make up for ones I missed, for weeks on end. But I have always been an avid music listener and a moviegoer. Does either prove that I am good muslim or a bad muslim, I have never felt so, and cannot understand people who use these as tools to measure their own or others faith by. I would say excess of music and movies is bad, that there is nothing else that would rather be doing, on the same argument, I would also say, too much praying is probably also not healthy for you. I know there would be people who would jump on the opportunity and thrash me for saying this, but let me reiterate – where listening to music 24 hrs a day is not practical, by the same account praying 24hrs a days in also not practical. We as muslims cannot seem to find the ‘middle path’ that there are so many Hadith about. But we will find it very convenient to throw in each others faces Hadiths to prove a point.
As far as I can see the only thing that I can agree with the author, Adnan, is that these are rants. Not a good example of anything, maybe just hurtful to one person, i.e. SM, and misleading to hundreds of other who may come across this as a critique.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
TwoManyFace: Question is not what I believe or Not as I am not being targeted by Shoaib.
Secondly, you wrote a lengthy comment but I am failed to understand whether you have issue with me, with Junaid or Shoaib’s comment in plain english which you can’t deny at all.
Please summarize your reply. I would be more than greatful.
Secondly, don’t compare me with Junaid. He’s wayy better than me.
P.S:I am nothing infront of Him. I am in state in which Junaid was that is phase of transiition. Offcourse I am emotional about Islam and it’s not a sin but nowhere I misused it by condemning something which is right. Again, you better read first what I said, you better get knowledge first what TABLEEGH is all about, you better find out first what Junaid Thinks about!. I have just made another post where I posted his video.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
I do not have an issue with you, or any one else for that matter. As I started out in the previous post, I was(am) just reflecting on what was going through my mind when I was reading your post. And the fact that people were seeing it as a positive assessment was probably more bothersome, then the article itself, Whereas I saw the whole approach to the discussion quite troubling, and I just shared with you and everyone else why I disagreed with the post, and what were the flaws in the argument, if there was an argument.
Things I had an issue with, listed below -
The title - was misleading
The interview excerpt - was interpreted as ‘you’ wanted it to be, interpreted, and perhaps justifying the title. I was just showing the possibility of another angle. Not knowing either of the individuals personally, I cannot say with authority that this is what this person means, or is implying.
Too many personal attacks – The fact that you probably got personal when attacking SM, not realizing that you were going over board with it. And no one seem to have a problem with it. I have personal friends that I disagree with all the time, and would flirt with their belief structure, but not out right offend them, or their intelligence. That is not the Islamic way. Islam gives more value to people and the human (social) relationship, then ever mentioned by the so called keepers of the faith. Yet the tools we use and abuse to measure others people are our own constructs.
Too much credit to JJ – and in your response you did it again, implying that he is ‘such a great person’. I am sorry, even though I have nothing against him, but I think in his religious vigor he is letting him self be used as a mouth piece of the Tablighi Jamaat. Which in my opinion is not a smart thing to do. Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), admitted to have made the same mistake in early days of Islam. You may want to lookup his interview in reference to that. I am not a new-comer to Islam, but I have never been able to see eye-to-eye anything that main stream Islam, as the one prescribed by Tablighi Jamaat, and the one predominantly followed in Pakistan and India. I am no one to openly challenge it, but I can comfortably say that it is not without errors. It not what they preach is wrong, it the spirit of emphasizing on things that ‘they’ feel are important. The same issue with Taleban, whom I have noticed that you are emotionally attached to, from your other posts. I fear, you may be emotionally attached to everything ‘Islam’, in experience, emotional grounds are usually pretty shaky ones, and the is no place for reason or logic, when you are consumed by emotion. I have been studying, and not just dinyaat, really studying Islam since I was 10, and I have been very lucky to have very good teachers a long the way. But the Islam enforced by the Jamaat and Taleban, is a very dangerous one, and could not be farther from the truth. Its all about power and politics, and that is what corrupts it in the long run.
I think I have tried to explain myself more than I wanted to, again, and this is becoming another long ass post. This is your blog, I should not be the one trying to take it over. I thought that there were some errors in your approach or presentation that needed a second look. Also your conclusion to the article was too tablighi. You see if I am going to critique a movie, I am going to critique a movie. If I am going to defend my faith, I am going to defend mine, not attacks someone else’s. You start out talking about a movie, and end on ‘here is how you lookup resources on Islam’, ??? and make it an opportunity to tablegh people, not very authentic, nor reasonable.
P.S. JJ is just a human being, like you and me. Having a beared, and trouser above his ankles does not make him a better person. This is not a crtique of him, but a request to reassess the tools you judge a person by. There is no tool available to you, me or anyone, that can show us what is ones status (darja) with Allah, and that is fact that you can’t deny.
July 21st, 2007 at 3:12 am
I would just like to respond to one of Adnan Siddiqi’s arguments against music. By a wonderful stretch of imagination, he has completely confused two entirely separate issues. Passion for any activity or hobby can make one neglectful of his duty towards his religion. If someone enjoys reading so much that he spends hours upons hours immersed in his favorite book and thereby misses all his prayers, should we not consider “reading” against Islam by this logic? It would be hard to come up with any “activity” which cannot be construed as unislamic according to this yardstick. Just one very simple example is enough to expose the hollowness of the argument against music. And by the way, how can one be labelled as a fanatic simply by making a movie about an issue that one strongly believes in?
July 21st, 2007 at 6:54 am
@MM: Read it carefully! I am not a god neither Religion was proposed by me. Your example of reading or something is useless. If I gave my own example then it doesn’t mean that IT WAS NOT IN ISLAM. WHy dont you guys make attempt to read Quran and hadith yourself to findout truth rather come on forum and start discussing something illogically. “In Islam music which is called today Is not allowed”. I didn’t quote any hadith because I was not aware. If I didn’t quote then it just means I am not aware , it doesn’t mean I am using ISLAM. Kindly read source books rather arguing with me. I could be wrong because i am human but not Quran and Hadith.
. And by the way, how can one be labelled as a fanatic simply by making a movie about an issue that one strongly believes in?
You should ask anti-Mullah cabal who keeps doing it all the time. By the way I just searched dictionary and found following meaning of Fanataism.
fanaticism: excessive intolerance of opposing views . This is all Shoaib Did? by showing intolerance and didn’t accept JJ’s action wit open heart
P.S: I have added JJ’s interview on same post. Pls read it
July 21st, 2007 at 6:58 am
I say only one thing that if one wants to fulfill his fantasy then DO IT! Why the heck people try to find justification in Islam and try to twist original teachings?
July 21st, 2007 at 7:03 am
@TwoManyFaces: For God sake yaar, why are you trying to GIVE YOUR OWN meaning of his statement? What Shoaib said was in Plain english. What I wrote is also in plain english. There is no twisting at all. you are trying to make things which suits you well.
J is just a human being, like you and me. Having a beared, and trouser above his ankles does not make him a better person.
Do you know Junaid? DO you claim this? Atleast I don’t but I appreciate his struggle to become a good muslim. Why do you guys have issues with DARHEE? If your own nafs don’t allow you to keep one then you would start cticizing others?
also, i have added JJ’s video about his life style. Visit this link and see yourself what he talks about. Don’t make assumptions my friend.
http://kadnan.com/blog/2007/07/20/junaid-jamshed-interview-about-his-life-and-music/
P.S: it’s your blog as well. You can make infinite comments you want. reason I asked you to summarize because I didn’t find continuity or was unable to understand it. Nothing else.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:01 am
All those enlightened moderates who say that music is allowed in Islam, refer to this Hadith
“The Prophet (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) said, “There will be [at some future time] people from my Ummah who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the wearing of silk (for men), wine-drinking and the use of musical instruments [ma’aazif]” (Sahih Al-Bukharee)
Regarding a detailed discussion on the prohibition of music in Islam you can refer to this
http://members.tripod.com/oum_abdulaziz/music1.html
Actually this topic has never been a source of controversy until recent times when some people are more concerned with changing Islam to follow thir own likings and wishes than to follw Islam as commanded by Allah, taught by His Prophet (pbuh) and practiced by his companions.
I was amused to read a Mr J Iqbal’s comment when he introduced a scholar who translated the Quran in french and who said that music is allowed in Islam as a “proof”. It just reminded me of this Hadith
On the authority of `Adi Ibn Hatim (ra), it is reported that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may Peace Be Upon Him) reciting this Qur’anic verse:
” They have taken their rabbis and their monks as lords beside Allah and [they take as a lord] Al-Maseeh, `Eesaa, the son of Maryam, yet they were not commanded but to worship One God: None has the right to be worshipped but He - Praise and Glory to Him: [Far is He] from having the partners they associate [withHim]” (Qur’an 9:31)
“…and I said to him : “We don’t worship them.” He (may Peace Be Upon Him) said: “Do they not forbid what Allah has permitted and do you not then forbid it (to yourselves), and do they not make permissible for you what Allah has forbidden, and do you not then make it permissible (to yourselves)?” I replied: “Certainly!” He (may Peace Be Upon Him) said: “That is worshipping them.” (Narrated by At-Tirmizi, who graded it as Hasan)
O people! fear Allah. This is indeed a time of fitnah and trials. And as muslims we need to educate ourselves about our own religion. This is the most important need of our time. Otherwise the enlightened moderates will keep on attacking islam and the way of our Prophet(pbuh) in the pre-text of changing with the times and to please their masters which they have taken.
commentors like MM and twomanyface (appropriately named) can only bask in the delight of their false logic and slander. They think that their own limited knowledge and rationale is much better than the word of Allah and tachings of His Prophet (pbuh); a doctrine that is very intelligently being introduced to our youth by people like Javed Ghamdi. I dont even want to go into answering their slander and personal statements.
We have to learn exactly what Allah demands from us, How the Prophet (pbuh) taught us and how the companions followed it. They never said that how come you are asking us to abandon something that we have been practicing and enjoying for the last 16 years. Actually that was the argument of the kuffaar that how come you are telling us that what we have been practicing and enjoying for the past centuries is wrong.
May Allah save us from questioning His words and decisions.
I also remember this verse of the Quran
“Say (O Muhammad (PBUH) to mankind): `If you (really) love Allah then follow me then Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”’ (Quran 3:31)
Remember o slaves of Allah! that you will be responsible for your actions. One day you will be standing in front of Allah and you will say that so and so told me to follow such and such and you will be asked didn’t you received my Book and didn’t I send a Prophet to teach you what was in my book.
Think about this as the one who misguided you will accompany you to an adobe that is not favored.
Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal said: “I am amazed at those people who know that a sanad is authentic and yet, in spite of this, they follow the opinion of Sufyan (referring to a specific case, meaning other scholars), for Allah, says:
” Let those who oppose his [the Messenger’s] commandment beware, lest some fitnah befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them” (Qur’an 24:63)
Do you know what that fitnah is? That fitnah is Shirk. Maybe the rejection of some of his words would cause one to doubt and deviate in his heart and thereby be destroyed.”
May Allah save us from the misguidance and allow us to learn, understand and follow our deen to the maximum. May Allah guide the ones who follow their own whims and slander and mock the ones who submit their wills to that of Allah.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:00 pm
i just want to say tht whether music is allowed in islam or not i think we are just wasting our time in discussing tht matter which does not effect our lives in a particular way if it does not give any thing usefull to us and if its not good at all than it does not harm us too music is associated to some particular poeple who can sing,play musical instruments or can compose music because thay have aesthetics in tht particular field we all can’t do things like this because we all dont have tht sense or we are not talented tht much we can only listen to music and as far as im concerned it does give me a sense to evaluate things in a better way for example the song “ALLAH HOO” if u listen to tht song of film KKL sung by saeen zahoor he has sung this sung tremendously the way he said ALLAH at the start of the song is amazing and beautiful and with the blend of beautiful music it is a great song but you poeple cant understand tht because you will just think whatever it is it is haram but with due respect there is no strong hadith or ayat in which it is said tht music is haram the hadith reffered by VOID it is said tht people will make lawfull fornication like the use of musical instrument. so in this hadith it is not said tht music is haram or singing is haram so this disscussion is a waste of time i just wanted to say tht we have so much time to think abt tht thing is haram or halal which does not have any direct link with us and even does not harm us in any way if u miss ur prayer is your fault because ur indulge in it so strongly music does not forces u to indulge in itself if you have faith in Allah u would have thought tht its prayer time and u should turn the music off but you did’nt it was not music’s fault it was shaytaan who was there it was not music so plz try to evaluate things with all perspectives and with open heart not only with open eyes watever SM thinks is his point of view watever u think is urs he don’t forces u to beleive watever he says its ur fault if u beleive blindly watever is said u have time to think abt music but there r much more things which demands our attention he(SM) is not only portraying extremism but also many other things but u only see wat u want to see if he says tht JJ did’nt consulted him so wats wrong in it he gave his 16 yrs of his life to him and in return wat he is just asking 4 just a consult if JJ respected him sincerely he would have toild him before tht SM did’nt have read it in newspaper so wwhere the heckk the JJ respect has gone at tht time at his most imp. decision of his life plz if u cannt support him than dont discourage him
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:34 pm
i just want to say tht whether music is allowed in islam or not i think we are just wasting our time in discussing tht matter which does not effect our lives in a particular way if it does not give any thing usefull to us and if its not good at all than it does not harm us too music is associated to some particular poeple who can sing,play musical instruments or can compose music because thay have aesthetics in tht particular field we all can’t do things like this because we all dont have tht sense or we are not talented tht much we can only listen to music and as far as im concerned it does give me a sense to evaluate things in a better way for example the song “ALLAH HOO” if u listen to tht song of film KKL sung by saeen zahoor he has sung this sung tremendously the way he said ALLAH at the start of the song is amazing and beautiful and with the blend of beautiful music it is a great song but you poeple cant understand tht because you will just think whatever it is it is haram but with due respect there is no strong hadith or ayat in which it is said tht music is haram the hadith reffered by VOID it is said tht people will make lawfull fornication like the use of musical instrument. so in this hadith it is not said tht music is haram or singing is haram so this disscussion is a waste of time i just wanted to say tht we have so much time to think abt tht thing is haram or halal which does not have any direct link with us and even does not harm us in any way if u miss ur prayer is your fault because ur indulge in it so strongly music does not forces u to indulge in itself if you have faith in Allah u would have thought tht its prayer time and u should turn the music off but you did’nt it was not music’s fault it was shaytaan who was there it was not music so plz try to evaluate things with all perspectives and with open heart not only with open eyes watever SM thinks is his point of view watever u think is urs he don’t forces u to beleive watever he says its ur fault if u beleive blindly watever is said u have time to think abt music but there r much more things which demands our attention he(SM) is not only portraying extremism but also many other things but u only see wat u want to see if he says tht JJ did’nt consulted him so wats wrong in it he gave 16 yrs of his life to him and in return wat he is asking 4 just a consultation if JJ respected him sincerely he would have told him before so that SM did’nt have to read it in newspaper and got shocked he got shocked coz he thought he had some place in JJ’s life but he was wrong JJ took advantage of his reputation in media and became successful and when it was his exam to prove his sincerity wat he did? where the heckk the JJ respect has gone at tht time when he has to make the most important decision of his life plz if u cant support him than dont discourage him he and his wirk is not harming u or not even anny1 else
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:59 am
Chakkar: in Quran ALlah says that Muslims can only get comform in Zikr of Allah therefore I don’t need to listen any song to bring Allah closer to me while I have Quran for this purpse.
It’s silly that you are saying his action can’t harm anyone. HE IS TWISTING ISLAMIC teaching and you are saying he’s harmless? Tomorrow you will say that Qadyanis were also harmless? Duh, I ain’t willing to reply you further.
July 23rd, 2007 at 6:01 am
JJ was not Shaoib’s slave. JJ was talented. If shoaib had not promoted him then someone else could. Why is like that SM couldn’t bring anyone else in parallel of jj in last 7 years? just because he couldn’t find one like him. *nuff said*.
JJ reads naat more beautifully than singing songs. His CDs were sold more than his singing albums and I had asked this from a local audio shopkeeper.
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:29 am
It seems that our nation has devided into two different thinkings.
well it was already devided but now it is clear to every one.
There are many posts about movie, some peaple support this movie and some people not.
I am not a ISLAMIC SCHOLAR or not a religious person but i m a Muslim. Question raised after this movie are those which 90% Pakistanies already wanted to aske…
tell me one thing there are hundreds of movies released in Pakistan every year and every movie have so much nudity and music is compulsory part of it…
every tv channel except some islamic chanels play music, music is part of every drama serial and they play it in background…
We mostly have music in our marriage cermonies…
mean this music is part of our life…. but i have never seen people discussin music like this … nevery peaple did..
there shud be fatwa about every chanel played today…and fatwa shud say that it plays music and it is gunah to play tv and watch such chanel at home…
even geo, ary, ptv palyes music ..
but none of maulana or ulma have given fatwa against them…
Why??????????????????
Painting and pics are part of every field of our life…
even we have to puc a pic on the passport of reupic Pakistan…
but no one has given fatwa about this…
If you say that these things are not allowed then why people has not stopped??
tell me?
but when some like shaoib mansoor maked a movie about this big issue people are saying bad comments about him…
i think he has done some thing which should be done a long time ago…
it is just because of him that we are getting such information today…
don’t say that we shud’t watch this movie…
let ppl watch and decide with help of some scholars that wat is gud and wat is bad
wat is allowed and wat is not allowed
yaar it has been more then 60 years of independance of Pakistan mean Islamic republic of Pakistan and we are to able to find wat shud be done and wat shud be not…
Rather then stopping people to watch this movie we shud think about the issue raised by this movie
and one thing i want to tell u all peaple this movie is so much based on reality…
and majority of our nation thinks like shoaib mansoor
so just stop saying it bad bad bad…
come with proper details about this issue
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:33 am
plz give me a reference … yay kahan per aaya tah .. mean where it publish ?? kisi channel per kaha tah ya phir kisi article mein Publish howa tah ??
Shoaib Mansoor comments…
“I have never believed that God could hate the two most beautiful things he has given to mankind…. Music and painting.”
plzz me waiting for ur reply
mail me plz ..
here is my id .. waqpac@hotmail.com
plzz reply me on my id …
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:56 am
Imran: If you don’t want to accept Quran and Hadith then you can do whatever you want but you asking WHY THIS not allowed then it’s not making sense as I know you and your parents would have raised any issue about uniform in school that why do you wear it. Relgiion means set of rules and regulations. If you don’t follow it then fine but don’t ask to change islam for sake of few people.
Regarding nudity stuff and other movies, they are also bad but shoaib is being criticized more BECAUSE HE TWISTED ISLAMIC TEACHINGS which was not done by other directors
Waqas: please visit the site inthenameofgod.com and visit the link “DIRECTORS STATEMENT”
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:04 pm
Mr. Adnan I was shocked to read your comment along with other fellows who accused Shoaib Mansoor as being not a true Muslim. How your opinion about a person like Shoaib Mansoor can undergo a change? He is a living legend. Men like him born once. I think his movie ‘Khuda kay liye’ is a good step for the awakening of the Muslims. It would definitely prove to be a great help to free the Muslims for the wrong conceptions of Islam. Islam does not allow extremism. Our holy prophet (p.b.u.h) said that Islam gives us the lesson of moderation. Does Islam preach that one should carry weapons to spread it and slaughter people ruthlessly? Do you consider such people who are doing all this as true Muslims?
As far Junaid Jamshed is concerned, I myself was a fanatic fan of his. He was the only great pop singer Pakistan ever had and was the only singer whom I loved to listen to. The news that he gave up singing was really shocking to me. I felt really disappointed. How many other hearts would have been broken by his this decision. Now just imagine how Shoaib Mansoor would have felt when he lost one of his closest friends with whom he spent sixteen years. Sixteen years are a big slice of life of course. I don’t think that in his movie he is criticizing Junaid Jamshed but he is trying to make people aware of the harms which are being done to our country and our society and which are still in progress because of that extremism.
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:34 pm
I don’t know why the heck you guys don’t make efforts to read his goddamn statement about Junaid and about Islam? whatever he said was NOT in Islam. He made statment that “I don’t believe God would hate painting and music”, its blasphemy, he’s challenging God that how did he Dare to give statement against Music and painting because it’s loved by Shoaib?
Junaid was not anyone’s property. When it’s preached by others that religion is personal thing then it’s Junaid’s own choice to decide about his life. When Islam came in Makkah, several infidels quit their past lives and became Muslims. Now people like you would complain why people at that time left their old pagan religion and become Muslims, after all their families gave them so many years? Duh! come with better logic.
ANd sorry I don’t buy your theory. Shoaib’s movie was funded by Pakistan Govt, the govt who’s busy in killing own people in the name of war on terror and demolishing masjids. Bush yesterday admitted that Hafsa operation was done to obey order of USA. So if you still think such govt COULD do something for Muslims then better you take a glass of wine and get Mast.
Your worship about Shoiab just shows that our pseudo educated people are not less ignorant than our villagers who are even ready to sell their izzat for sake of Makhdooms and Sains.
Have fun! and do make yourself used to read papers. USA has given indication to attack on Pakistan now I see how your Shoaib and his agenda save Pakistan. In the end these “terrorists” would be saving pakistan and all enlightened freaks would be hiding behind them just like it happened in Lebonan during Gucci revolution.
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:42 pm
and Abrar, why were you shocked? Is Shoaib some godlike figure that he can’t be criticized? here people don’t leave Molvi, hadiths or even an entire religion then what’s his worth?
the fact is Shoaib has got exposed with his cunning attitude about Junaid. Junaid kept praising him in every program and in return he declared Junaid a fundamentalist??
Just imagine if you say NO to some of your friend due to some genuine reason and he starts mudslinging , how would you feel? good or hurt? I must be sure that junaid would have god hurt but then Junaid is on path where He would be getting more comfort so Inshallah Junaid will be safe.
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:54 pm
salam
u knw wat,people like shoib,who r so much involve in dis wolrd n truly believe dat dis life iz to b enjoyed,(zindagi aik baar milti hai,so 1 shud fully enjoy it DAHH!)2 make dem realize dat dis life is a mere test,exam iz not easy(if day think skippin cmplsry questions day can pass it,u cant help dem.
day r on da other extreme,wat they believe (modernizing islam)has been injected in r society by jews through decades strugle,since khilafet has been declining n destroyed
(1918-1924)
ALLAH jissay chahay hadayet dy or jissay chahay gumrah rakhay
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:13 pm
salam
there iz another angle,besides da fact dat shoib.m wants 2 show dat da extremist r confuzin da youth,n muzik iz not haram,so n so,but he also emphasized on da situation of muslims after 9/11, dat day r being opresd n killed just bcoz of being muslim.
maybe generally locals wont agree upon his view abt ‘muzik n islam’(almost evry1 knows musik is forbidn,but still v hav so much of it in r lives) but will think abt islam or r present situation …hope u getin ma point (kuch tou sochain deen k baray may)
and u knw wat in ur artical u used sum rude words 4 shoib,wen da other party iz already negative/disagrees wid u,den u shud use sum technique n b polite, use aqall
July 24th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
i want to ask you only 1 thing have you seen the movie KKL?
July 24th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
think everyone here is missing the point and it that is troubling, and that is perhaps what Shoaib Mansoor is pointing to when he is implying that hatred music and the arts should not become what defines us as Muslims. I do feel that the society in Pakistan has an issue with access of music, every where you go you can hear music blasting. It can be tagged as a sign of a society loosing its focus. May be this is the time to identify the problems that are plaguing the social structure there. But Shoib Mansoor is not the cause of it and Junaid Jamshaid is nor the cure for it. I fail to understand how promoting music or banning music is going to fix muslim ummah’s issues of the day, and therefore I feel that Adnan’s and everyone who is so bent on proving that music is haram, would get from it. The position is that we have all of a sudden realized this one commandment and we need to get everyone to abide by it, and it is going to be end to all evil, and we will be saved.
I agree that Islam is a lifestyle, and not just the symbolic practice of it. Can you tell me what difference were the Taleban able to make in a society that they were left incharge of for over a decade, except for proving to the world what a bunch of imbeciles they were. What aspect of life did they set an example in the world, to cause the non-Muslim world realize their errors? What kind of a legacy did they leave for the generations to follow, except of destruction and mayhem?
All I am trying to say is please do not waste so much energy on one point and keep beating it. Haraam is too strong a word, and it should not be used for Music or the Arts. I am not promoting music all I am saying is that we have worse problems facing us, and this issue is not worth wasting so much energy. Adnan, just tell me whether you agree with me or not?
Secondly, I think if the Saudi mullah’s are not running about the streets screaming haraam, haraam, haraam, at every music and video store then its not worth the effort. One thing I am sure of, if music and movies were Haraam, to the true sense of Haraam in Islam, there is no way in the world music would be sold legally in the shops of Saudi Arabia. Trust me, there are music played in Makkah and Medina, and it is sold there. You just don’t see it being abused like this it is abused in Pakistan, where an individual listening to music in his car, or anywhere else for that matter, finds it his personal responsibility that everyone else needs to listen to it. That I think is very wrong. But if the Alims, Muttawas in Saudi Arabia felt that music is haraam, and root of all evil, then there is no way Mohammed Abdo would be able to play to Sold Out concerts there. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12178346
All I am saying is Haraam is a too strong word to be proving it. There may be difference of opinion among Islamic scholars, and in my opinion where ever there are multiple opinions among scholars, one should not try to prove one or the other with such vigor. It is not what you are saying is wrong or right, it is the way you are doing it makes it wrong. The overemphasis of your argument is quite pointless. You are constantly telling the opposing arguments to “go read it yourself – it is in the Quran and Hadith … you will realize weather you are right or worng”. In my example above, I have tried to prove, that the Ulamah’s are not in agreement about music being haram. As far as painting is concerned, the images of creatures is wrong. There is a lot of grey to be arguing over these subjects.
Adnan, you have said in you several posts that read for yourself what Shoiab Mansoor is saying – “its in plain English”, And I have read it several times, and I still can’t see how you can deduce what ever you have said about him – and his opinions about Islam and Junaid Jamshaid. I think all he is saying that in his opinion JJ is wrong and the way he choose to present his case, is wrong, and he does not agree with it. As far as I can see and I would not criticize either for doing what they are doing, because for a healthy society we need opposing ideas, to nurture your future generations. If we don’t, then we will loose focus of the middle path, which Quraan Hadith so much emphasize on. Trust me, there are more Hadith and commandment in the Quraan emphasizing the importance of the middle path, then calling for banning of the music or the arts.
I would suggest that you go and watch the movie, and then give your opinion whether what Shoaib is trying to indoctrinate the generations to come is wrong or right. You have obviously heard what JJ has to say. One thing I would say, is that I feel that your opinion is very biased, and you are not willing to assess what the other side has to say, and that is probably not the attitude you should have when watching the movie. I live in the US, and I am impatiently awaiting the release of the movie here, and once I watch it, we can further discuss it.
Last. I would like to add for everyone else who has been engaged on this blog, that I have always held the opinion, even when I was really young, that religious conviction is a luxury that not everyone can afford. Majority of the population in Pakistan is busy trying to make a living, with their sweat and blood. These people surely, do not have access to music, movies, arts, or even the internet, their issues are real, and the things we are clamoring are not even a consideration for them. What we need to fight for at a grassroots level is injustice, corruption, and individuals’ right to exist in peace, and that is what would make us an exemplary society. That is how we would be doing service to our people, to our country and to the rest of the world, and that would perhaps please our Allah more than just picking out a commandment or two, and forcing everyone to follow it.
Adnan, please tell me of the points above, specifically what do you agree and disagree with? Actually, I would like everyone to give their input.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:49 am
After going thru all comments by respected participants, I just notice that one that NONE of them bothered to 1)read my orignal post with REFERRENCEs of Islamic sources 2)comments by other people as well. there are 3 main things which I tried to discuss.
a)Shoaib’s reaction on JUNAID’s Personal decision which I believe was very extreme and unjust because JJ is free soul like other
b)Shoaib’s Statment which is officially up on movie’s official site which is mentioned under the lik “DIRECTOR’s STATEMENT”
c)Shoaib’s Blashpmeous statment that “I don’t believe God could hate music and painting”. Its really a blasphemous. Just like I godforbid say,’I can’t believe God could ask us to starve in the name of ROZA”. This is ignorance and offending Islamic teaching.
Those who are suggesting me to watch Movie, I would sure try to grab a copy but as it’s said in Urdu, “Lifafa dekh kar Khat ka Matan bhapna”, so It wouldbe pretty lame that If you guys are saying that Shoaib says something else in Movie and maek some other statment in his website. Those who have watched MOVIE have told that Movie has made fun of Beared, Pardah, called Music and Painting Legitimate.
All I know that Islam was given by Allah rather Shoaib so definitely I don’t need to see Islam through the eyes of Shoaib or ANYONE else.
I read some funny comments on other site that some song of mive brings closer to Allah.LOL. While in QUran Allah says tht only ZIkr of Allah could bring closer
Please do Read concerned Books, Quran and Hadith. Noone asked you to listen me either. Why does it irk you people to read Quran adn Hadith? Please read them, Khuda k liye!
I don’t need to give any further explaination.. All I know that it’s pretty sick to associate our own fantasies in the name of Islam. In future someone would rise and say tht Sharab is Halal because it was halal for sometime in the era of Muhammad(saw). So don’t fool out yourself. I know that those who wan to follow Islam in true sense wouldn’t make any excuse at all.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Adnan, you failed to respond to my post above – and completely ignored the argument I presented, and you are sticking to your original stance. That is precisely what meant when I said that I am afraid you are quite biased to the whole discussion, are not willing to budge from your POV. And what I have been trying to prove to you is that, even though you have the right to have your own opinion and point of view, you cannot argue it with a statement that,(and this is what I hear you saying) ‘this is the only way it is and there is no other possibility – and Shoaib Mansoor is a non-Muslim (or what ever you are trying to imply)’. The statements you are trying to prove as blasphemes, are NOT, by any standard. Please stop referring to it as blasphemy. I think you do not understand the term, and may end up abusing it. It seems like you are an educated person, so therefore I would request you to raise your deen, above what some ‘eighth grade’ dropout mullah told you it was.
1- First off, Junaid’s decision would have been personal, if he had found his religion and kept it private, but he had an urge to go out and preaching it too. I think its dangerous. He is trying to promote the Tablighi agenda, which I have opposed my entire life. I know exactly what JJ is going through. I have first hand experienced it. When I performed my Hajj, I was a changed person, that I have found my Allah, and I have to share it with everyone else. For about six months to year, I wanted leave everything I was doing, and turn to the faith in the true sense and start preaching people the error of their ways, and I was going to make a difference in peoples life. That is the problem with the whole tableghi attitude. There was a very long period that I would be visited by the Tabligihis in Pakistan, but they never could convince me that I should join them, because their solution to ever problem was very simple. You should pray and you should make roza, and that will fix all your problems. And I would tell them, that theirs was such a strong jamaat and that had so much pull with the masses, but the only solution that they have to offer is that I should pray and do rozas’ , and invite others to do the same, and that is going to fix all our problems. I would tell them sorry, that I did not believe in that. My argument was that even though the form of prayer they preach is obligatory, is not the only form of prayer. The faith they choose to preach is very selfish one, to find quick and easy ways to collect blessing (swaab) for oneself , and invite others to do it, and if they can create a society that they can do the symbolic exercise of prayer, that would fix everything. Do you honestly believe that people who pray and fast, cannot commit any sins. They do, and there people who suffer from their actions. How do you fix that suffrage? And their response would be, that our job is to pray to Allah and then Allah will fix everything else for us. That is the philosophy that I have a problem with, that is the philosophy that is the base for all the tablighi argument and invitation to deen. Read your Quraan and Hadith, that there is a world of teaching in setting up social structure, and the importance of ones responsibility to society. So in my opinion these people are misleading the masses, and when JJ is being the mouth piece for them, that he is not doing anyone any favors, but himself.
2- Adnan, you have taken the directors statement, and misused and misinterpreted it, so that you can prove that Shoaib Mansor is an bad person, and your attacks are very personal. By logic your assessment is not without error. Meaning that you are very wrong, and I have read your whole article several times, and I am sorry, but you are very wrong in your assessment. Besides, what really bothered me about your article was the fact, that by the Islamic standards that you so vigorously preach and pass judgment on Shoaib Mansoor, by the same standards you cannot pass judgement on any human being. Allah, is the judge, and by Islamic teachings, only Allah has the right to judge. In your every statement, you are trying to pass judgement, on Shoaib Mansoor. By your standards, if Shoaib Mansoor can be called a blasphemiest, then so are you – you are trying to take up a characteristic of Allah which He has only reserved for himself. Therefore not only logically your article above is baseless, it goes against the principals you are standing up for.
3- And I think, ,point 2 - above also answers to your third point too.
Also you referred to some song from the movie, mocking it, (not a good way to argue a point – in my opinion) about that according to Shoaib it should be bring you closer to God, and …” I read some funny comments on other site that some song of mive brings closer to Allah.LOL. While in QUran Allah says tht only ZIkr of Allah could bring closer” I saw JJ singing or something, on TV sometime back, I am not sure what that was, that he was trying to do. A Naat perhaps, so if JJ sings a Naat, (or what ever you want to call it, I would still call it singing), so what you are saying is that Zikr of Allah?
From what I understand from your quote above, that it can’t be Zikr. So if that’s not Zikr, than why is JJ doing it, or is he confused about what is singing and what is not, and what is Zikr.
Adnan, I would appreciate a proper response for this and the previous post, please. And, thank you for letting me have my say, on your blog.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
No I didn’t Ignore but when I see that same thing is being repeated again and again then I preferred to sit in corner and let other speak.
and Shoaib Mansoor is a non-Muslim (or what ever you are trying to imply)’. The statements you are trying to prove as blasphemes, are NOT, by any standard
In quran there are clear instructions to offer Namaz(Salat). Now If I make an ignorant statement,”I can’t believe God could put us in trouble and ask us to do needless exercise by getting up early in the mordning at 4/5 PM because God loves us and can’t disturb us while we sleep” then It’s nothing but would be a blasphemous statement. Why does it bother you to accept that We MUSLIMS FOLLOW what is in QURAN and HADITH rather Shoaib or some other goddamn soul? Why didn’t you bother to read the referrence of ayats//hadithes given by ME and OTHERS? Sorry friend I can’t be part of such useless contest. You can continue.
First off, Junaid’s decision would have been personal, if he had found his religion and kept it private, but he had an urge to go out and preaching it too. I think its dangerous
Muhammad(saw) found A religion but God asked Him to Promote. Same done by Jesus(AS),DAvid(as),Moses(as). What was wrong in it? If you don’t accept it then fine, nobody cares but this is what in Quran:
Invite (people) to the way of your lord with wisdom and good counsel.(Quran 16:125)
Now if some say that I can’t believe that God would ask us to do this task then it’s certainly a blasphemy. You don’t believe in Tableegh then fine, you have free to oppose them or even REJECT a religion but IF YOU OPPOSE then does it mean other agree with you as well? Is is not imposing YOUR views on Others? Did Muhammad(saw) not transfer the message of Allah? Didn’t you read the hadith,”pass the knowledge even a single verse”. If someone couldn’t match your mentality then it doesn’t mean they are wrong or right. I was like you. EVEN JUNAID was like you. Did you watch the video of Junaid I posted? you should watch it. It will open your eyes. Definately you have no idea about tableeghis and you are in darkness like I was few years back but then you have right to reject them but definately you can’t ask me to follow what you ask. Atehiests don’t believe in God but it doesn’t mean we gotta agree with them just because their mind can’t comprehend? I thnk you and me are going on a seperate topic which is beyond the scope of this post and if I have time i could discuss it off the site some day.
Again, I didn’t make any conclusion. Read the Statment of Shoaib. there is NOTHING BETWEEN the Lines and I stick my opinion about his statement. I could be wrong but several others DID agree with me. You can ask them why did they agree with me.
I saw JJ singing or something, on TV sometime back, I am not sure what that was, that he was trying to do. A Naat perhaps, so if JJ sings a Naat, (or what ever you want to call it, I would still call it singing)
JJ don’t read Naats with Music. Today the people liek sami yusuf or Najamm sheraz read hamd or naat with music is NOT right at all. When something is wrong a/c to rule of God and order of Muhammad(saw) then it’s wrong. we can reject by saying “I don’t accept it” but certainly say “they didn’t say something like that”.
I would suggest you to give sometime to Quran and hadith about certain issue,educate yourself then we would discuss otherwise you are just wasting your energy- Thanks
July 25th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
I have never believed that God could hate the two most beautiful things he has given to mankind
In Islam *I* doesn’t work and we re asked to Obey Allah’s order. This is the reason Islam means SUBMISSION, accepting Allah 100%. What’s your take on it?
Speaking of tableeghis, your perception about Tableeghis is entirely wrong. It shows lack of knowledge at your end. Bhai when you never tasted a biryani then how could you say it was good or bad? Your mindset was like others and I am not surprised. Anyways I can surely says How successful those tableeghis are and those tbaleeghis don’t take sanyas from the world. Several IT graduates and other professional from all over the world are part of tbaleeghi jamat. A friend of mine from NED got Masters in US and now did course of “ALIM” in Karachi. THIS IS CALLED earning BOTH DEEN and DUNYA rather spending more time in business and lesser time to Allah. You better watch Junaid video which I published on same article.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
see this video:
http://kadnan.com/blog/2007/07/20/junaid-jamshed-interview-about-his-life-and-music/
July 25th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Dear friend, please don’t imply that ‘you were like me three years ago’, as, in your opinion my struggle with faith is a recent one. I am not one of those, born again Muslims (please research the term ‘born again’ before you reply to this), who have just realized the faith recently. My struggle to learn and accept the faith is an ongoing one, for the last 25 years. I have been at this longer than JJ has been. I am not of the people that would disguise their dilemmas with verses of the Quraan, I am very comfortable with my shortcomings, because I realize that in the end I am human and full of errors. I have been there and back, and there again and back again, long before you or JJ ever started to consider the importance of faith in ones life, and the social atrocities we overlook in the process of defining what we consider divine and what we consider evil.
I am not trying to waste your or my time. I am trying to provide an opposing opinion to others who may also be reading this, and providing you with an argument from a different perspective. As I said in my very first post, that what really bothered me about this post is that in an effort to show someone else’s errors, you, the author, is committing the same errors. And this is what the Tablighis do, and that is quite dangerous. Their mind set is, that if you don’t agree with our opinion, then you are evil, and they are not willing to assume a different opinion. You keep on saying, “this is the way it is, and if others cant see it then its their fault”. I do not see in your examples where you have provided a quote from the Quraan that indicates that music is Haraam. Please do so.
Also when ever you read Quraan, and translations, be very careful what you quote and how you quote it. Here is a very good example provided by you:
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
And what I am saying is that when ever you see there [ ], as in here [acceptance of], if you take [acceptance of ] out the verse, the meaning changes. There are those who would say that, these are used to emphasizes or clarify a point. But I would ask you to go through multiple copies of translations, and you will notice that a lot of them use these brackets, all of them, interpret or emphasizes different from one another. Unfortunately, they do it to emphasizes in accordance to what their fiqh (school of thought is), rather than, just telling you what the word of Allah is. So your interpretation of these terms changes. Very dangerous to do so. So you ask –“ In Islam *I* doesn’t work and we re asked to Obey Allah’s order. This is the reason Islam means SUBMISSION, accepting Allah 100%. What’s your take on it?” —- I don’t know what to say, Mullahs and Alims do it all the time. You can’t argue that since they are Alims, they have the right to do it. Ok fine, the have the authority to do it, but then why have these different view. They are all Alims, why can’t they agree on one statement, on that this is what Allah said, and don’t use brackets. But the fact is that they do, and they can’t see eye to eye, on small and big matters. That is not what bothers me, because I understand that we are humans, and we can error. What bothers me is that we would kill one another, on these difference of opinions, and that is the attitude that bothers me. Please don’t say that I am confused about the Tablighi attitude. I have been there, they are not any different from you and me, they may also be confused about what matters and what does not matter in life, based on the use of the ‘square brackets’.
July 25th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Here are a couple of web sites that give conflicting information. Also please note individual sources too.
http://www.jamaat.org/qa/music.html
http://www.submission.org/music.html
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/1716/music.html
http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/music.html
I am not promoting one view or the other, all I am saying is that there is conflict of opinion. Plus, one thing of intrest to Note is that by the standards put by the ones opposing would put an end to every form of entertainment. By those satandards, internet is haram, telling jokes is haram, even blogging is haraam. Please read all of them, and then decide if we can abide by those standards today. I’ll give my opinion based on your response. Thanks.
July 25th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Sorry I should have added this earlier. The discussion on this is the same, just that this specifically discusses the usage of the term ‘Haram’, towards the bottom of the article.
http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/misc/music_in_islam.asp
And it does support my argument of previous posts that, we should be very careful with using the term Haram. Perhaps leading us to call someone blasphemous. Some may not understand this, but the unfortunate use of the blasphemy act in Pakistan has very serious consequences, and abusing this term as you have been doing can prove to be very dangerous for someone not paying attention to detail. As the case have been with several innocent victims, in our Islamic republic of Pakistan.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
film ki story keya hai?
July 26th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Very well written post. To be emotional generally is not good but sometimes emotions are necessary to express one’s feelings.
July 27th, 2007 at 5:38 am
@2ManyFaces:
As posted by a reader:
For Music:
——-
“The Prophet (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) said, “There will be [at some future time] people from my Ummah who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the wearing of silk (for men), wine-drinking and the use of musical instruments [ma’aazif]” (Sahih Al-Bukharee)
For Painting:
————–
Narrated ‘Aisha(RA):
I stuffed for the Prophet a pillow decorated with pictures (of animals) which looked like a Namruqa (i.e. a small cushion). He came and stood among the people with excitement apparent on his face. I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is wrong?” He said, “What is this pillow?” I said, “I have prepared this pillow for you, so that you may recline on it.” He said, “Don’t you know that angels do not enter a house wherein there are pictures; and whoever makes a picture will be punished on the Day of Resurrection and will be asked to give life to (what he has created)?
Do I need to say more?? I am not concerned your real name ,gender etc but I want to ask that are you a HADITH REJECTOR? The submission website you quoted is run by hadith rejectors who don’t even believe in Namaz,Roza etc and came up with theory that Quran had extra 2 verses. Similar Jamat Islami who is highly influenced by Modudi’s work is not credible either because it was modudi who made blasphemous attempts by making statements that anyone could reach to status of prophethood.
If yuo think that quoting such sources could give justification to fulfill your fantasy then you are wrong.
I give a great respect to Moalana Yousuf Ludhyanvi(DB) and Taqi Usmani etc ,despite that I am a barelvi but even those guys would have come up with such silly reasons then i was going to reject them at first place. No one is above Quran and Sunnah . this is what taught by Allah in Quran and then by Muhammad(Saw).
So don’t give me any inter petition which is NOT in Islamic sources.
I have given you enough answers and not willing to reply you more.. I tried my best to tell you but you are not in mood of accepting basic things. replying yuo further means i am supporting troll.
If you don’t wanna follow Quran ad Sunnah, fine don’t do it but DONT seek any justification of any filth or personal fantasy within ISLAM.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:57 am
I just want to ask 1 thing that everybody is in favor of Junaid Jamshed but anybody answer me that Once you earn lots and lots of money through HARAM way is there any possibility that your convert that money to HALAL. Everybody knows Music is HARAM and JJ earn all the money he have through HARAM work. Now he is a very religious person but the money he have the boutiques he have all from HARAM work. Why JJ gives all his money to any Charity or any other organization and than join religious party and do Tablig as much he wants. Just give me that answer is there any way to covert HARAM money in HALAL????????
Quoted by Mr. Adnan that “So many times I never offered prayers, not even at home, I was not used to offer maghrib and Isha prayer,yeah I seldom offered Asar and Zohar, forget about Zohar. The point is music has something which kept me away from my God daily”.
Mr Adnan this your mistake that you never offered prayers don’t blame your mistake to Music. Allah didnt forgive you for this statement that i didnt offered my prayers becoz of Music…….
July 27th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Jamal, good question. I had also thought loong time back when he quit music that how then he earned the money? to long story short, no he DIDN’T use the money he earned from music in his Kurta business. This was told by Junaid himself that when he quit music, they faced a situation where he terminated the addmission of his kids from private schools and admitted him in low standard school. This is suffice that when he quit music, he quit the source of Income as well. Junaid doesn’t belong to a poor family so definitely he would have been backed by His dad to kick start his business. Atleast I am sure that he did suffer when he quit music because he canceled all agreements.
hat answer is there any way to covert HARAM money in HALAL????????
I personally don’t know.
Mr Adnan this your mistake that you never offered prayers don’t blame your mistake to Music. Allah didnt forgive you for this statement that i didnt offered my prayers becoz of Music……
I don’t matter here. Read above what I quoted. Even if I didn’t go thru this or Junaid Himself which he mentioned in his interview as well[linked above] then still those two hadiths are enough to put weight in my points that it’s not allowed.
Thanks
July 27th, 2007 at 8:33 am
Allah didnt forgive you for this statement t
That’s between me and my Allah. Obviously You don’t know whether He forgave me or not.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:15 am
ASSALAM O ALIKUM…
ABHE TAK JITNEY BHE LOGON NE APNEY APNEY COMMENTS SUBMIT KIE HAIN WOH APNI APNI JAGA BILKUL THEEK HAIN..KYUN KE HAR INSAN KA APNA VIEW HOTA HAI..AUR USKO APNEY VIEWS EXPRESS KARNEY KA POORA HAQ HASIL HAI…SAB LOOG SHOIAB MANSOOR AUR JUNAID JAMSHED KI BATAIN KAR RAHE HAIN….FILM “KHUDA KAY LIYE” KO CONTROVERSIAL KEH RAHE HAIN…SHOAIB MANSOOR KE STAEMENT KO CONTROVERSIAL KEH RAHE HAIN..JAHAN TAK DIRECTOR’S STATEMNET KI BAT HAI TOU ME BHE MANTA HUN KE SHOAIB MANSOOR KA STATEMENT KUCH SUITABLE NAHI HAI..UNKA YEH KEHNA HAM SABKO ODD LAGRA HAI KE MUSIC AUR PAINTING ARE HALAL…YAAARO LOG KYA KUCH NAHI KEHTEY..KIA HOJATA HAI…ACTUALLY AKSAR INSAN JO KEHTA HAI USKA MATLAB HOTA KUCH AUR HAI…AKSAR KAHA KUCH JATA HAI AUR SUNAI KUCH AUR DAITA HAI…NAZAR KUCH AUR ATA HAI AUR HOTA KUCH AUR HEE HAI….MERI BHT CLOSE CUZION HAIN JO 2 YRS PEHLE HAJJ KARNE GAEEN THEEN JAB WOH WAPAS AAYEN TOE ME SHOCKED REH GAYA KE INKO HO KYA GAYA..FULL PARDA..AND COMPLETELY RELIGOIUS..UNKA YEH NEW IMAGE KO MERA KYA KISI KA BHE MIND ACCEPT NAHI KAR RAHA THA..SHURU ME TOU MENE BHE BHT AJEEB SEI BATAIN KEEN AUR OVER REACT KIA KE “PARDA KIA ZAROORI HAI… HAJ KIA HAI TOU MATLAB HAI KE APNEY CUZ SE BHE PARDA KAREEN GI..JABKE ME TOU UNSE CHOTA HUN..”…IS TARHA KI BATAIN ME KARNEY LAGA THA….MAGAR AJ ME KEHTA HUN KE UNHO NE JO KIA WOH BHT ACHA KIA..BUT INSAN KA MIND ACCEPT NAHI KARTA..BILKUL ISSHI TARHA SHOAIB MANSOOR KE SATH BHE HUA HAI..JUNAID AUR SHOIAB KI DOSTI KA KOI IMAGINE BHE NAHI KAR SAKTA..BHT DEEP FRIENDSHIP THEE DONO ME..JAB JUNAID KA NEW IMAGE SAMNE AYA TOU USKO SHOCK LAGA AUR USKA REACTION US NE APNEY STATEMNET ME KIA BUT IN THE FILM AISA KUCH NAHI HAI KE APKO JUNAID KE KHILAF LAGEY…..BHT POSITIVE MESSAGE HAI…THORA MIND KO BROAD KAR KE DAIKHNEY KI BAT HAI…JAB MENE FILM NAHI DAIHKI THEE TOU AISI HEE BATAIN ME BHE SOCH RAHA THA KE SHOIAB AISI FILM KYUN BANAYE GA JO MUSLIMS YA ISLAM KE AGAINST HO……BUT JAB MENE POORI FILM KO DAIKHA..USKO SAMJHA..USKI GEHRAI ME GAYA TOU SAB SAMAJH AGYA.I HAVE NO WORDS FOR SHOMAN..KHUDA KAY LIE KO ME FILM NAHI MANTA ..YEH FILM SE BHE BARH KE KOI CHEZZ HAI JISKI JITNI BHE TAREEF KI JAE KAM HAI…FILM DAIHNEY KE BAD ME 2 DAYS TAK USS HE TOPIC PE DISCUUS KARTA RAHA ..SOCHTA RAHA…AISI BHE KOI FILM HAI JO APKO ITNA SOCHNEY PE MAJBOOR KARDEY???
JAHA TAK JUNAID KE NEW IMAGE KI BAT HAI TOU ME USS INSAN KI AZMAT KO SALAM KARTA HUN..KHUDA HAM SAB KO USKEY JAISA BANADEY (AMEEN)
AB JAHAN TAK BAT HAM SAB KAR RAHE HAIN MUSLIMS..ISLAM…RELIGON… MUSIC ..ETCCC
TOU YEH BATEY KE SAB NE QURAN O SUNNAT KE BHT REFERENCES DIE HAIN KE MUSIC HARAM HAI..BHT SARI AAYAT PE RESERCH KAR KE BHT BATAIN TOU KEEN HAIN KE DIRECTOR NE GHALAT BAT KAHI HAI…BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT……………………..
KYA SAB NE QURAN ME WOHI AYAT READ KEEN HAIN JO AAJ AAP KEH RAHE HAIN KE MUSIC HARAM HAI…KISI NE UN AYAAT AUR SOORATOON KO READ NAHI KIA JIS ME “ALLAH” AUR USKE RASOOOOL NE NAMAZ KA HUKAM DIA HAI….JHUT KO HARAM KAHA HAI….CHORI KO BURA KAHA HAI…GHEEBAT KO BURA QARAQ DIA HAI…..KISI NE QURAN ME YEH SAB NAHI PARHA HAIRAT HAI…..AAP KISI KO KEHNE SE PEHLE AGAR SIRF APNEY APKO DAIKH LO ACHI TARHA TOU APKO APNEY SE KHUD SHARAM ANEY LAG GAE GII…LANAT HAI AISEY MUSLIMS PE JO HAR WAQT SUBHA SHAM JHOOT BOLTEY HAIN…PEET PEECHEY BURAI KARTEY HAIN…
KITNEY HAIN AAP ME SE JO 5 WAQT KI NAMAZ PARHTEY HAI??? KON AISA HAI JO SOURCE NAHI LAGWATA?? KON HAI JIS NE KABHE RISHWAT NAHI DEE??? AUR AAP BAT KARTEY HAIN MUSIC KEE….SHARAM AANI CHAHYE HAMAREY LOGON KO JO ISLAM KE INITIALS AUR BEGGININGS BATAON KO POORA NAHI KAR RAHE AUR MUSIC KE KHILAF BOL RAHE HAIN…DIRECTOR KO KYA KUCH NAHI KEH RAHE?? AREY PEHLE APNA DEEN TOU THEEK KARLAIN..MUSIC KI BAT TOU BHT BAD ME ATI HAI…
ABHE JO LAL MASJID ME HUA .WOH KYA THA…??
SACHEY MUSLIMS??DARHI WALEY MOULVEES??SHALWAR KAMEEZ WEAR KARNEY WALEY MOLVE??
5 WAQT KE NAMAZI??
HAN BILKUL YEH SAB QUALITITES THEEE UN SAB ME MAGAR KIA HUA…….MUSLIM NE MUSLIM KO MAR DIA……KIDNAP KARLIA….TERRORSOM CREATE KIA…..YEH MUSLIM HAIN….JO QURAN TO YAD KARTEY HAIN MAGAR ALLAH KO HE BHUL GAE…USKE RASOOL KI BATAON KO BHUL GAE….AUR LOGO KO MAR MAR KE ISLAM KI YAD DILA RAHE HAIN…KON ACCEPT KARE GA ITNA DANGEOUR RELIGON???ITNI ENFORCENMET WALA MAZHAB……..
FILM “KHUDA KAY LIE” ME AISI HEE BATAON KO DISCUSS KIA GAYA HAI….
DIALOUGE::………..
“KHUDA APKI NAMAZON SE KHUSH NAHI HOGA AGAR AAP USKEY BANDO KO TAKLEEF DAINGEY”
“PEHLE BATIN KO THEEK KARO..ANDAR AAG LAGAO BAHAR KHUD HEE AYE GI”
“DEEEN ME DARHI HAI… DARHI ME DEEN NAHI HAI”
“AAJ HAM KYUN ‘QUAID-E-AZAM’ AUR ‘ALLAMA IQBAL’ KE NAMES KE AAGEY ‘REHMAT ULLAH ALLEH’ LIKHTEY HAIN??? QUAID-E-AZAM TO PANT SHITR WEAR KARTEY THEY..NAMAZ BHE NAHI PARHTEY THEY…UNKI TOU DARHI BHE NAHI THEEE..PHR..AJ KYUN HAM LOG UNKE MAZAAR PE JATEY HAIN???KYUN FAATEHA PARHTEY HAIN??”
“YAD RAHE QUAID E AZAM NE MUSLIMS KI JAN BACHI THEE…AUR HAMAREY MUSLIMS NE JAN LEE HAI” WOH MUSLIMS JO 5 WAQT KE NAMAZI HAIN..MAULVEE HAIN
ME KEHTA HUN KYUN JATEY HAIN YE DARHI WALEY CINEMAS???MOULVIYUN KO ARAM KYUN NAHI HAI KISI PAL???FILM GUNNAH HAI TOU KYUN DAIKHTEY HAIN??MUSIC HARAM HAI TOU KYUN SUNTEY HAIN?? SAB KUCH KARTEY HAIN YEH LOOG ..SARI FILMS KI KNOWLEDGE HOTI HAI..PHR USS PE FATWAH BHE JARI KAR DAITEY HAIN…AB UNN MULLA LOGO KA DEEE IMAN KAHAN CHALA JATA HAI JO APNI AANKHON SE DANCE DAIKHTEY HAIN??KIA UNKO SAWAB MIL RAHA HAI??? KISI CHEEZ KI ITNI KHOOOG HE KYUN LAGATEY HAIN KE USS PE BAD ME AITERAZ KAREN….
AAJ LOG ISS FILM KE AGAINST BOL RAHE HAIN…AUR WOH FILMS JO ITNI BEHUDA…CHEAP HAIN JO HAR WAQT TV AUR CINEMAS ME LAGI HOTI HAIN..UN PE KYUN AITERAZ NAI HOTA???UN POSTERS KO KYUN NAHI JALAYA JATA JO NAKED PICS MAIN ROADS ME HANG HUE HAIN…UNN STAGE SHOWS PE BAN KYUN NAHI LAGTA JIS ME VULGUR DANCES HOTEY HAIN???
KYUN NARGIS AUR DEEDAR JAISI LARKIYON KA DANCE LOOG DAIKH RAHE HAIN?/KYA YEH ISLAM ME HALAL HAI??ISKI PERMISSION HAI??
K.K.L JAISI DECENT MOVIE PE SHOR MACHAYA JARHA HAI..WAH KIA BAT HAI…ISS SE TOU SAF ZAHIR HOTA HAI KE LOGON KO SHAAUQ HAI “BADMASH GUJJAR”,”WEHSI HASEENA”,
“SOHA JORHA”,”JUNGLE QUEEN”, “JISM” JAISI CHEAP FILMS DAIKHNEY KA…KYA YEH FILMS ISLAMIC HAIN??KYA INKO DAIKH KE SAWAB MIL RAHA HAI??
K.K.L PE ISLIE BAN LAGNA CHAHYE KE IS ME KOI VULGAR DANCE NUMBER NAHI HAI….IS ME KOI CHEAP DIALOUGE NAHI HAI…ISS ME KOI CHEAP DREESS NAHI HAI….AAZAAN KI AWAZ HAIN, NAMAZ KA ZIKAR HAI, GOD KA ZIKAR HAI, MOSQUES DIKHAE GAE HAIN….
YEH SAB YAHA KISI NE NAHI DAIKHNA KYUN KE HAMARI AWAM NANGA PAN DAIKHNEY KI AADI HO GAE HAI..AISI FILM AISI AWAM KE LIE NAHI HO SAKTI…
WELL…KOI KUCH BHE KAHEY…AAJ YEH FILM SUCEESSFULL HONEY KE SAREY RECORDS TOR CHUKI HAI….SUPER DUPER HIT……
MUSIC HALAL HAI YA HARAM IS PE BEHAS KIE BINA KYA HAM FILM NAHI DAIKH SAKTEY???MUSIC KE ILAWA AUR BHT ISSUES HAIN ISS ME SOCHNEY KE LIE…MUSIC KO BILA WAJHA BASE BANAYA JARHA HAI….MERI REQUEST HAI KE FILM DAIKHYE ZEHAN SE UTARYE….SABKO APNEY UPER TRUST HONA CHAHYE..INSAN AGAR ANDAR SE STRONG HAI TOU AIK FILM USKEY IRADEY AUR SOCH KABHE CHANGE NAHI KAR SAKTI..
MJHE AAP LOGO KE RESPONSE KA WAIT RAHE GA….PLZ RESPONSE SHOW KEJYE GA…
July 27th, 2007 at 9:24 am
Salam to all of u…
Jamia Binoria Town aur Lahore ki kisi masjid ke ulamaah ne film khuda kay lie ko rokney pe bht zor dia hai ..plus uske against brouhers aur pamphlets bhe print krwa ke masjid aur different places pe distribute karwae hain..pehli bat yeh ke yeh karne se film ki aur achi publicity hogae..marketing strong hogae..shoaib mansoor ka kam inn maulvees ne aur bhe aasan kar dia..geo aur jang ke bad aik nai publicity…kya yeh pamphlets read kar ke logo ne film nahi daikhi?? kya film band hogae??1 week se house full hai.. over croweded hain cinemas…mjhe buhat afsoos hota hai ke inn mualana logon ne apna image bht kharab kia hai poori society me…Lal masjid me jo abdul aziz sahib ne kia who sab ke samney hai..ab itni be-izati unko face karni hee parii…mene bht sare molvees ko cinema se nikaltey hue daikha….akhir kyun???????????????????????? Ab aapko sharam nahi aye?? Ab apni darhi ka khayal nahi aya??
Film daikhi phr shor machana aur fatwa jari karma shuru kar dia….wht is thz????????kia yeh log sab kuch isilie daikhtey hain ke fatweh jari kar dain??? Mene poori film daikhi hai bht sooch samajh kar aur pooori film me aisa kuch nahi hai jise itna barha charha ke bataya jara hai…jo hai sach hai haqeeqat hai…akhir kyun yeh log sach nahi daikhna chatey???hamarey Pakistan me sab se buri cheez yeh hai ke..burai ko khatam karna koi nahi janta…han jo burai ko aur buri bat ko sach ke tor pe dikhata hai tou sab uskey against hojatey hain ..yeh sab kya hai??pehle burai ko jar se khatam tou karo….
Aik news paper me mene parha jis me film ko iss tarha bataya gaya hai ke parhney wala boley ke….”kya waqai director ne aisi batain kaheen hain??tauba tauba…Allah maff karey”…etcc…..
Me hairan hun ke kitni aag laga ke..kitna barha charha ke iss insan ne yeh khabar dii hai..ab itna jhut boltey hue khuda ka khoof nahi aya ke 2 ki 4 kar ke aap akhbar me likh rahey hain…
Film me darhi ka bilkul mazak nahi uraya gaya…sab bakwas hai…uska aik bht positive way me jawab dia gaya hai…aur junaid jamshed ka nam bar bar leke uski insult kee jari hai…aisi news likh ke junaid ke andar konsi aag lagana chah rahe hain likhne waley sahib…in sahib ne jo kuch likha hai usko parh ke koi bhe insan yeh aram se kahey ga ke….”kia waqai aisi film hai…tauba tauba..allah maaf karey….itni buri batein film me batai hain….”etcc etc……
bat ko batney ke 10 ways hotey hain..bat hoti kuch hai aur hai batay kuch aur jata hai….
Jahan tak music ki controversy hai tou me bhe agree nahi karta film ke uss point se magar iska kia matlab hai ke film me aur jo 2 main tracks hain aur jo story hai usko me appreciate karta hun..jo dikhaya gaya hai who hamara aaj hai..muslim hee muslim ke khilaf jihad kar raha hai..yehi sach hai….ab yeh sach mulvees ko bura lag raha hai..kyun….lal masjid ka itna bara tamasha sab bhul gae…..hamari masijdon me suiside bombing hamko nazar nahi arhi???aaj Afghanistan aur wareeriztan me jo kuch hora hai who kia hai??agar yeh sab film me dikhaya gaya hai tou itni aag kyun lag rahi hai??????pehle wahan jake burai ko rok saktey ho tou rooko phr film ko band karwana…..
__________________
>>
July 27th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
I am sorry for what I am about to say. This is not to hurt or belittle anyone, I am just sharing my personal feeling, which I in the past I would usually only share with very close friends. A lot of people have been very upset with me in the past for saying this, that Pakistan is a lost cause, and it is because of these pseudo religious types, who think that they understand everything, and everything is black and white, and would reject anything that does not conform to their thinking. And find all sorts of argument justify their own thinking. As I have said before, “Narrow-mindedness is not having a set of values that one feels strong about, but narrow-mindedness is having the opinion about ones reason and logic infallible.” It is the same people who are going to destroy Pakistan, in the name of Islam, because of their version of Islam needs to prevail. Therefore at least I see 3 pieces of Pakistan, 20 years from now. And guess what, these people would still be fighting, about whose right and whose wrong., whats halal and whats haram.
When I was younger, I would hear stories about these pseudo religious types: who had called Alama Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, even Mohammed Ali Jinnah (please go read your history, if you have forgotten) blasphemes and anti-god and anti-religion, and what ever they thought would fit, and I would be very surprised. I don’t claim to understand that philosophy still, all I see is that its their way and everything else is wrong. I have read Ghamadi and Madoudi being criticized, (Adnan, even though it was not your post about Ghamadi, but I am sure you are very critical of him) on this same blog (surprisingly two opposing theorists), which makes me wonder, is there an end to the confusion of these pseudo intellects. Which leads to me to another belief of mine, that Islams biggest enemies are muslims themselves. The type of selfish and self promoting single ideology version of Islam, that JJ is promoting as the mouth piece for the Tablighi Jamaat are going to have very long adverse affects on Paksitan. Generations are going to have to pay with their blood, for the mistakes of a few power hungry, whether it’s the fanatics of Lal Masjid, or the dictatorial regime of Musharaf.
On the lighter side, one of the posts above mentions about a mosques in Lahore going to a lot of trouble from stopping people from watching this film (Adnan, I believe, that they would be from your fiqh). I remember a story, and I forget who I heard it from, but, in the early times of cinema in Pakistan, producers did not have money or means of communications to promote or advertised theirs movies, and could not reach their audiences. So they started to payoff these Mullahs across Pakistan to start giving fatwas during Friday sermons against their movies, and the strategy paid off. These Mullahs go through a lot to promote a movie. I am sure they have brain they can use, its just filled with a single sided agenda, and does not have the balance for logic or reason.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
I hear the movie is funded by Govt. of Pakistan, is that true ?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
2manyfaces: problem with people like you that you always underestimate others. People like you think that others never read anything and others just keep their ears open to listen what some scholar says. Obviously people like you believe that anyone who favor a bit about Islam is a person who has dwelt in Madrassahs. Actually the mullah term is very interesting for such people. I am a computer engineer but so many people declared me mullah just because I don’t prefer to accept lame things in the name of modernism and liberalism. So the trend forced me to think that non-Mullahs are THOSE who never practise Islam. *nuff said*- I am not willing to be part of such cabal.
What is narrow mindness for you is absurdity in reality. If following basics and sticking to Quran and Sunnah is narrow mindness then I am proud of it. I am a computer engineer by profession. if I don’t follow rules of programming and engineering in my field then according to language of liberals I am a MODERN person while for wise people and professionals, such theory is nothing but stupidity and idiocity.
one of the posts above mentions about a mosques in Lahore going to a lot of trouble from stopping people from watching this film (Adnan, I believe, that they would be from your fiqh)
There are no such news which you mentioned and EVEN if it happened then you are very naive my friend. In the world, porn sites are hit more than anything else, after that I find non-Islamic websites get more hits than nay other site. Apostate website faithfreedom gets millions of hits /month. So does it sign of success for you? if yes then i can just laugh. Look friend, IN Quran Allah said clearly that guidance is in Allah’s hand only, Surah As-shuara’s starting ayat is a question from Muhammad(saw) in which Allah asked HIM not to hurt Himself because people were not listening HIM. Hidyat is in Allah’s hand. According to Ayah I quoted before, its all because at day fo Qayamah i would be asked by Allah that did I inform naive people about something which is not right or did I pass God’s message? So I like millions including doing same thing. You might consider me a liar but those who had to understand the real motive, they did condemn. AND I personally want that people must watch this movie so that they understand how blacksheeps among muslim society mock the religion and in presence of them, we dont need jews or christians as our enemies.
regarding my Fiqh, what do you know about my fiqh? Interesting, do tell me. Also u ignored my question that are u a hadith rejector? if yes then why dont u tell?
a single sided agenda, and does not have the balance for logic or reaso
logic and reason? its you who talking about it? pls tell me what logic do you use to violate Allah’s laws or did I make a mistake that I didn’t ask your belief first?
and it is because of these pseudo religious types
another Ignorant statement. Who ruled over Pakistan in last 60 years? was Ayub a religious guy, were bhutto and yahya religious who splitted Pakistan? what about Benazir ,altaf and Bibi and now Musharraf.
Zia is taunted all the time which is sign of Ignorance. Zia also never did anything for Islam, when he tried to implement something which he called shariah then Americans and local liberals got afraid and blew him up!
advising me, yo should read RAND report that how west is promoting liberals/secularists in Pakistan in the name of enligtenment and moderation. I have a detailed report, read it and enligten you what’s going on. Come out of history and live in present.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
jaffar: yes it’s true. Movie was funded by Pakistani[read American] govt.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
“DEEEN ME DARHI HAI… DARHI ME DEEN NAHI HAI”
Ahad Mian, Islam Quran aur hadith mey hay, FILM mey nahi. *grin*- Aqalmand hogay tu Ishara samjh jao gey.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Mr. Adnan with your permission i want to say something or you can say i want to ask something to Mr. twomany faces.
Mr .twomanyfaces u said earlier that you see 3 pieces of PK,20 years from now. I want to ask you why do you see 3 pieces of PK and how would you define or classify these 3 pieces of PK and wat should be the solution so that our country would not get into pieces and i shall be very grateful if you answer to my Question in detail. I am anxiously waiting for ur reply
July 27th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Adnan, if you were a seeing man, you would be able to see the contradictions of your own argument. But then again, by your standards, I am in the dark, and perhaps by my standards you are. Please, don’t get upset, the feeling is mutual. Your premise and your argument are both flawed, and yet you are not willing to admit it. And what is worse is you are very presumptuous, which really does not help you when you are arguing a point. For example, my statement above “if you were a seeing man”, is also presumptuous, but it is based off of the attitude projected by your claim to be a traditionalist in faith. Where as all your arguments are in contradiction to the tradition you hold in such high esteem. At least my practice of the faith does not contradict itself.
Maybe you don’t mean to be so arrogant in you presumptions, but unfortunately you are. You are a classic example of a born again Muslim, who jumps at everything and say how can you say this? how can you say that? Are you “—-“? Or are you a “—-“? (using terms, that you clearly don’t know the first thing about). That is really not helping your argument, therefore stop fooling yourself that you are making a point. Because you are Not. I cannot say, that there was a single argument that impressed me, or made me question my own opinion and that is the weakness of your argument. I am sorry, but I think you have to learn a lot about your own faith before you can go on passing judgments on other people. And I guess, you really did not understand when I told you that your whole argument is wrong by the standards of Islam, because its you who is passing a judgment on another muslim (Shoaib Mansoor), and Allah does not allow any muslim to pass judgment on another, in the matters of the faith. It is a pretty serious sin. I would genuinely suggest, from the bottom of my heart, you and study this, in great lengths.
As a matter of practice - and I tell you this from personal belief and practice, I have never used a hadith to belittle anyone, or prove to them that I know more then they do. I have always told people, that this is what I think is in Islam, and if they have their doubts, I would suggest they look it up., and if I am wrong, come back and let me know that I am wrong.
You ask me a very difficult question raffochakar sahib and which sort of goes out of the scope of this discussion, and also perhaps I am not an expert, but I would share what I think needs to be shared. The reason why I said it because there is no one across the web-o-sphere in all the recent discussions I have come across who have been or been successfully able to get people to agree, that what Muslims, and also Pakistani’s are failing to realize, is that whatever their differences maybe, they need to unite. And we are not willing to let go of our prejudices, in faith or in ethnicity, in order to survive. How can we ignore to realize that our survival is at stake, is beyond me, and I blame the couple of generations before us, and blame the current generation for continuing to walk the erroneous path of their fathers. The past generation was lost in proving their hollow might, and we cannot realize that it was an impractical approach to set a good foundation for the generations to come. This goes into a more historical and philosophical discussion, which perhaps requires a critical analysis of the past and the present. I guess, in my humble opinion, when its our survival at stake, then we should focus on the things that are important for our survival. In the Muslim world, the most important thing that we lack today, is unity. If we cannot learn to unite, we will destroy ourselves before someonelse does. And that is what I see happening today. I wish there was a way to share with you the torment I go through when I hear a bomb blast has killed so many. With each atrocious death I feel like a part of me has died with them, regardless of what version of the faith they upheld, no matter what their ethnic background. For me, we are all muslims, trying to live our lives to the best of our ability, in Islam ( “in Islam” meaning – for Allah, of what we understand of Allah). I must also include, that 90% of the ones who loose their lives are from the poor, whose conviction and struggle in life is just to survive. What bothers me is that the people killing them are the ones, who are killing for a piece of the hereafter, than for peace on Earth.
I think, I am getting carried away, and perhaps said more than I wanted to say, but this is important for me to share this, in just one paragraph.
Why three pieces of Pakistan? And again this is just a philosophical assessment? I believe that there is a lot of money being poured into Pakistan, from everywhere, and in the end they will all win. America is obviously pouring money into Pakistan to safeguard its interests. The religious traditionalists are pouring money into Pakistan, to keep their agenda alive, because God-for-bid, they give in to the great Satan. So one part will go to the American backed entities, the other to the religious backed, and the third part would be the one that neither would want, because of its historical problems, and that is where the people who neither of the other two parts want would end up. Geographically where the lines would be drawn, would be dependent on when these groups’ appetite for destruction is satisfied. I hope that this satisfies your query.
July 28th, 2007 at 5:57 am
Dude, this was such a lame post by you.
Out of your dumbness, I’d like to bring it to your notice since you seem to infer generally from the words rather than context that: You’re a loser - Get a life.
July 28th, 2007 at 6:06 am
contradicting myself? Would you like to enlighten me where did I contradict myself? what I see that so far you are being a strawman and everytime you comeup with new argument and never bothered to answer your old argument. For instance, you were keep trying to justify about music and painting and keep urging me to see movie and don’t be an ignorant, when I showed you references of hadiths, you came up with new argument. You then attacked on Tableeghis and frowned that why Junaid is preaching? again I showed u reference from Quran you went silent and then come with other accusation that people of my FIQH attacked somewhere. I asked are you a hadithr rejector? because if you are one then I didn’t want to argue with you. Such a sissy thing because you DON’T even know my Fiqh or Maslak. FYI, I am NOT a deobandi, the maslak of Tableeghis or Junaid. I didn’t declare you are in dark. All I said that we muslims are asked to stick on what Quran or hadith says rather what SOME PERSON interpenetrates it That’s the crux of my entire post and discussion with you.
Let’s agree to disagree. Obviously you are not in mood to listen me. I tried my best to get adjusted with you but you are going on path which is opposite to my belief. When you are not considering Quran and hadith important enough then no point to argue with you on this topic or any other religious topic. I would end the discussion with you with famous quote of Imam Sha’fi:
I debated a scholar and beat him. Then I debated a layman and that layman beat me - he had no knowledge of the principles and texts. I had nothing to say
and RaffoChakkar ,you or anyone, you don’t need my permission to discuss things with each other.
cheers and have a nice weekend.
July 28th, 2007 at 6:37 am
Najam: One of my friend was in Commerce and always considered it LAME. It’s not because science is lame, its because he was not able to comprehend it properly. Abusing me wouldn’t help you to come out of ignorance.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
Bhai Adnan, you have done a great job here.
To all the L-O-S-E-R-S who are throwing comments against this beautiful article will soon after they die will know what ALLAH is and what they had to done in the world. Trust me loosers, the day is not far. Do note that Allah is Raheem and Karim till we live in this world, just after we die Allah could remain Raheem with us or becom QAHAR as per our Amaals.
First of all get life and soul. Open your eyes read the QURAN and AHADIS. Read what has happened with people who tried to change the ISLAM.
July 30th, 2007 at 4:21 am
salam
very well written, I wish shoaib himself could read this post or atleast the theme and ask himself whats up?
i havent watch the movie but would like to c any body who actually watched and heard the two dialouges. sorry didng go through the comments may be some body would have seen the dialouges.
July 30th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Adnan, if you really want to get proper responses to all your queries, send me an email to twomanyface@yahoo.com, and I would reply to everything you ask of me. Either you can ask them in a question answer format, or I can respond to everything you have asked me here. A lot of things, I did not respond to because I thought they were out of the scope of this discussion.
I still don’t understand, what specifically you mean by that I am going opposite to your belief. I guess if you email me, I can perhaps elaborate more on what I see as your contradiction, and your misinterpretation of what SM said, because that is the premise of all your argument, and that how you have committed a graver error in trying to prove him wrong.
Based, on your comments above, I think our discussion on this board has come to a conclusion, and I have probably said all I needed to say about your post. Also if anyone else reading my arguments on this post and if they feel that I am wrong, please let me know, and I will try to clarify. I think I am taking too much space on this forum. Thank you ALL for your patience.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
so you admit you have been unable to reply here properly? *grin*.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:37 am
Salam to all of u…
Jamia Binoria Town aur Lahore ki kisi masjid ke ulamaah ne film khuda kay lie ko rokney pe bht zor dia hai ..plus uske against brouhers aur pamphlets bhe print krwa ke masjid aur different places pe distribute karwae hain..pehli bat yeh ke yeh karne se film ki aur achi publicity hogae..marketing strong hogae..shoaib mansoor ka kam inn maulvees ne aur bhe aasan kar dia..geo aur jang ke bad aik nai publicity…kya yeh pamphlets read kar ke logo ne film nahi daikhi?? kya film band hogae??1 week se house full hai.. over croweded hain cinemas…mjhe buhat afsoos hota hai ke inn mualana logon ne apna image bht kharab kia hai poori society me…Lal masjid me jo abdul aziz sahib ne kia who sab ke samney hai..ab itni be-izati unko face karni hee parii…mene bht sare molvees ko cinema se nikaltey hue daikha….akhir kyun???????????????????????? Ab aapko sharam nahi aye?? Ab apni darhi ka khayal nahi aya??
Film daikhi phr shor machana aur fatwa jari karma shuru kar dia….wht is thz????????kia yeh log sab kuch isilie daikhtey hain ke fatweh jari kar dain??? Mene poori film daikhi hai bht sooch samajh kar aur pooori film me aisa kuch nahi hai jise itna barha charha ke bataya jara hai…jo hai sach hai haqeeqat hai…akhir kyun yeh log sach nahi daikhna chatey???hamarey Pakistan me sab se buri cheez yeh hai ke..burai ko khatam karna koi nahi janta…han jo burai ko aur buri bat ko sach ke tor pe dikhata hai tou sab uskey against hojatey hain ..yeh sab kya hai??pehle burai ko jar se khatam tou karo….
Aik news paper me mene parha jis me likhney wla khud itna jahil hai ke usko film ka kuch bhe pata nahi hai aur itna barha charha ke us ne likha k jis ki koi had na ho…janab likhtey hain ke shan america metric karney jata hai…kitni funny bat hai na…….shan 16 years ka larka hai kya??aur yeh ke film ke writer koi javed sahab hain…jab ke writter shoiab mansoor hain….aur yeh likha hai ke is film me kaha gaya hai ke darhi rakhna zaroori nahi hai…aisa kuch bhe nahi hai..jo kaha gaya hai kisi situation pe kaha gaya hai aisey words nahi kahey gae..yaar jis insan ko film ki ABC he nahi pata tou woh bhala kia review day ga film ka..woh bhe aisi film ka jisko parhey likhey log he daikh saktey hain..jahilo ke bas ki bat nahi hai…
Me hairan hun ke kitni aag laga ke..kitna barha charha ke iss insan ne yeh khabar dii hai..ab itna jhut boltey hue khuda ka khoof nahi aya ke 2 ki 4 kar ke aap akhbar me likh rahey hain…
Film me darhi ka bilkul mazak nahi uraya gaya…sab bakwas hai…uska aik bht positive way me jawab dia gaya hai…aur junaid jamshed ka nam bar bar leke uski insult kee jari hai…aisi news likh ke junaid ke andar konsi aag lagana chah rahe hain likhne waley sahib…in sahib ne jo kuch likha hai usko parh ke koi bhe insan yeh aram se kahey ga ke….”kia waqai aisi film hai…tauba tauba..allah maaf karey….itni buri batein film me batai hain….”etcc etc……
bat ko batney ke 10 ways hotey hain..bat hoti kuch hai aur hai batay kuch aur jata hai….
Jahan tak music ki controversy hai tou me bhe agree nahi karta film ke uss point se magar iska kia matlab hai ke film me aur jo 2 main tracks hain aur jo story hai usko me appreciate karta hun..jo dikhaya gaya hai who hamara aaj hai..muslim hee muslim ke khilaf jihad kar raha hai..yehi sach hai….ab yeh sach mulvees ko bura lag raha hai..kyun….lal masjid ka itna bara tamasha sab bhul gae…..hamari masijdon me suiside bombing hamko nazar nahi arhi???aaj Afghanistan aur wareeriztan me jo kuch hora hai who kia hai??agar yeh sab film me dikhaya gaya hai tou itni aag kyun lag rahi hai??????pehle wahan jake burai ko rok saktey ho tou rooko phr film ko band karwana…..
July 31st, 2007 at 10:13 am
Junaid’s latest interview after extreme propaganda by Shoaib-It was published in Ummat.
http://kadnan.googlepages.com/junaidjamsheedck7.gif
I got surprised to know that Shahzad roy went for tableeghi chilla for 3 days!
Lagay Raho Junaid Bhai!!!!!!!!!!!
August 2nd, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Music is not haram in islam. If it is then we have to ban it in pakistan, even the pakistan army band which is also music. It is not haram. But it is not considered good because music creates the kind of culture which is entirely unacceptable. Just think in the west where music and singers are more popular than any other thing. Just see what culture they are creating and promoting. The culture of drinking, drugs and gays and lesbians. Most of the singers and musical groups are either gays or lesbians. for example Elton John and George Michael etc. Thats one of the reason why young people are so confused. Why Gays and Lesbians which is absolutely unaccepatable in ISlam is getting so much importance in the west. Its only because of these so called musicians and singers.
As far as poor Shoaib Mansoor is concerned, he is the greatest artiste and whatever he is said is his own opinion and thats it. I am not worried about what he says but I am happy about what he has done over the years and still doing. Thumbs up Shoman.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Two related links:
By Javeria:
The Pharaoh, The Magicians and Shoaib Mansoor’s KKL. very well put by her. Who says Quran doesn’t talk about Modern times attitude? *grinChor K Kaan mey Tinka!Click on above links
August 21st, 2007 at 6:39 pm
http://www.darsequran.com/bhdbaloch/bhdrabad/bhdr-film_1.ram
http://www.darsequran.com/bhdbaloch/bhdrabad/bhdr-film_2.ram
September 4th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
First of all i just want to say this to Shoaib Mansoor & any one who wants to say anything about Islam is that before saying anything one should get the facts right based on the proper sources i.e. Quran & Sunnat/Ahadith & not just on someone’s personal feelings/opinions/thoughts or grudges. As it is too big a deal because it might mislead a lot of people & the one responsible for their sins will be none other than the one propagating wrong facts about Islam.
Secondly if someone fails to prove something haram than that doesnt mean it becomes Halal!!Just think about it!!
People do your own research PLEASE DONT BASE YOUR WAY OF LIFE ON THE THOUGHTS OF ANY PERSON WHO DOES NOT HAVE COMMAND IN DEEN/RELIGION.
December 10th, 2007 at 9:03 pm
Adnan bhai!
(all the comments and everything is going on in english language. but plz make my life easier n let me write a very important comment in urdu + everyone here is pakistani and can understand urdu, “i hope”)
Adnan bhai app ne SM pr tunqeed ki= perfect lakin aikkk kaam jo app ghult kr gaye hain woh yeh ke jaise shoaib mansoor kehte hain na ke “khuda mera bhi hai” to app ne SM ko un ki yehi baat “sumjhani” thi “nicely” n “softly”.jaise junaid bhai kehte hain ne ke do tok baat na kro..nurmi se baat kro, sumjhao. app yahin pr aa kr kaam kharaab kr gaye..app ka harsh andaz e tunqeed taa’meeri kum aur tukhribi ziada lug rha hai. Is ko perh kr Shoaib mansoor bhai ka sochne pr shaid kum aur ghusa krne pr ziada dhyaan jaye ga. woh hmare hain, hum hi main se hain plz andaaz aisa rukhain ke un ki ghult baat pr tunqeed krain, un pr nain.
so plz ager kr skain to issey edit kr ke apna lehja zra nice and soft kr lain.
Boht Shukria,
JzakAllah.
December 11th, 2007 at 6:52 am
Dear Pakistan
Thanks for your comment. Whatever you said I agree. Let me tell you that I should not be compared with Junaid neither with Shoaib. Both are professional in their fields. Junaid has become very much scholar and sit in the company of holy people. I knew I was aggressive but this aggresiveness was spontaneous rather planned. Just like someone badmouths about my parent and i just react harsh.
Editing post will not be an honest move at all. I don’t want to pretend something holy while I am not. I would like others keep pointing out my mistakes rather hiding them. Hope you understand now.
December 15th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
don’t tell us bhai that your whole ‘purpose’ of writing this article was to show your own honesty or dishonesty. ager yeh right way main effect nain kr rha hai to phir….?
main ne kub ‘comparison’ kia….?(thinking)
people like us must should not be compared with junaid jamshed. but still junaid main aur hum main aik baat common hai. ager woh race track pr hain to hum bahir baithe tumashai nain hain ke un ki success pr clapping kr ke un ko bus appericiate krte rhain. un se peeche sahi lakin hain hum bhi ussi race track pr hi.
bhaag kr age nikul jane wale ko to psund krte hain aur khud taiz bhaag kr un ke saath milne ki koshish bhi nain krte. ke “pretend” krain ge.
come on bhai! na krain.. baat mante bhi hain aur mante bhi nain.(smiling)
(plz just ignor the above comment ager main ne app ko ghult sumjha ho.)
Thanks.
December 16th, 2007 at 3:00 am
Music and painting, like many other things in life (e.g. food) can be good or bad for depending on how they are adopted in your life. To say that all music or painting is bad for you and therefore should not be listened to (or banned) is a very naive and ignorant viewpoint. It would be similiar to saying that all food should be banned because some of it isn’t good for you! Just think of all the amazing caligraphy, painting and architecture across the Islamic world. Likewise with music!
January 24th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Bravo.. Bravoooo.. Bravoooo… what can i say except that its a great effort .. and i agree with u Adnan.. and yes the guy who quoted things out of context plzz dont do that iof u read Surah Bara’a translation there it is mentioned a lot of times that Jews (Yahood) did that a lot they said things like GOD also said u can choose to foloow my orders if u wish to or dont if u dont want to.. dince when were ALLAH’s orders OPTIONAL??.. there is very very harsh saza for those who misquote ALLAH’s words or try to mould them to their own needs.. and the guy who said there are no HADITH regarding musci.. i just wanan say is uni of bahwalnagar or watever the place where everyone knows all the HADITH.. i mean cudnt it be poossible the studets their or the ppl at lecture whoever they were werent aware of any AHADITH.. plus as i said there is the fear of misquotation. but i went on youtube here is a link of the video which gives a few AHADITH..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5-QZCITh6vA
I HOPE YOU FIND AN ANSWER IN THERE .. and then there is the stupid thing shoaid and all the stupid ignorant moderates say..” MODERENISE ISLAM” .. remember when isalm came it came to people on arabia who were jahil in every sense of the word.. It made them human beings.. great human beings..and our HOLY PROPHET SAW.. SAID IN HIS KHUTBA when performing HAJJ TUL WIDA..
“This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion” Quran 5:3.
As you can c this AYAT AL MUBARIKA IS IN QURAN IN SURAH AL MAAIDA.. VERSE 3 so u can go and read urself too.. and wat it means is ISLAM IS CHOSEN AS OUR RELIGION AND HAS BEEN PERFECTED BY THE MOST PERFECT HUMAN BEING OUR BELOVED PROPHET (S.A.W).. now who is shoaib mansoor or meor you or musharraf to change it? and to say its not modern enough.. religion shouldnt be changed according to times .. itrs not fashion..yopu should change the times according to your religions.. and if ISLAM is so obselete NAUZUBILLAH.. then how come all the opredidtion that the BELOVED PROPHER (S.A.W) made more than 1400 years ago about the SIGNS OF THE JUDGEMENT day keep proving to be TRUE…?? HOW CUM ALL THE SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST and the economists and the political experts cant make prediction with all the tools they have and the help they have.. which OUR BELOVED PROPHET (S.A.W) made 1400 years ago?? .. and u want to follow them and not THE PROPHET (S.A.W)and one of the signs of jugdement day were the becoming popular of lady singers and musical instruments.. you can check that out at thousand places.
adn those who say you cant force ISLAM .. yes you cant force ISLAM but when someone is in the confines of their own house. IN anislamic state we cant let people build brothels or pl;aces to make wine.. you cant trade those things you cant let people astray .. and if you do.. its duty of the muslims to stop YOU.. THATS JIHAD!! we r on this eart to spread the word of ALLAH not kurt gobain!.. Just remeber this you are here cause ALLAH gave you life.. otherwise many sperms are flushed into gutter everyday you could have been one of them.. and someone who is made up of such a filthy thing ( sperm) cannot afford to stand up to the ALMIGHTY ALLAH.. and the western culture of moderation and modernizing religion to their needs ahs led them to what?? total destruction fo family values?? street crime?? lawlessnes?? rapes?? fornication?? birth of illegtimate children?? follow only the good things.. islam didnt stop neone from studying PHYSICS OR CHEMISTRY in russia or america.. PROHPET S.A.W. said ” Ilm hasil karo chahe tumhein is k liay cheen(CHina) hi kyun na jana paray”.. so dont be ignorant and say musics stopped now we cant invent nething! cuz someone said that in the blog too..may ALLAH give us al hidayat.. AMEEN.. ALLAH O AKBAR!
February 25th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
In my opinion your column is nothing more than a mere reconfirmation of what was actually been relayed in the movie about the muslim delimma: The reactionary and self righteous attitude. Let’s not view this as a pro-shoaib or anti-shoaib rant, but please, your column and most of the comments seriously reek of self righteous and dogmatic mindset.
My two cents on this: First of all creative writing can and SHOULD cover religious subjects. And like every creative accomplishment, it will have a message to it. People with limited vision and wisdom otherwise known as maulvis, have failed to view Islam more than what is forbidden and what is allowed. The fact is, music and other creative expressions have always existed in the human race before Islam and will continue to exist even after.
Secondly every creative task is always inspired by some event or any person that has affected you. Junaid’s reasons for joining the jamaat is equally complex and personal as Shoaib’s choice of using this as an inspiration for the project.
Lastly, no one…..NO ONE has a monopoly on any ideology including Islam. If God has the monopoly then he has already spoken in the Quran, but then if clarity was his objective , then he would’ve written the Quran in bullet format.
Peace
Atif
February 25th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Atif,
the time you spent to write me, if you would have utilized it to read entire article +comments then you wouldn’t have bothered yourself to write things like “Self right attitude”.
I can’t continue more unless you educate yourself what actually shoaib said and what actually I was talking about. Also visit the following link to learn more about Shoaib’s glory.
Clickety
February 25th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Dear admin,
On your recommendation read the entire page again.
yes, i have watched the movie a couple of times now just to understand the “controversy”.
I don’t intend to make this an ego issue,which most of the pakistani and US blogs suffer from.
anyway, i will write in bullet form for clarity:
1: I am a huge fan of word puzzles. And i could easily spend hours working out an entire page length of it. And if I forget my prayers because of that , are the word puzzles to be blamed for it? Music and any other interests are just that: interests. Please dont blame work, entertainment, family, friends , happiness, sorrows or any other feelings if you miss your prayers.
2: Mentioning the profit hungry capitalistic US multinationals as a case study of ethics is frankly very weak.These are the same companies that would do business in any manner just to earn profits. They are not meant to be ethical institutions. Their shareholders dont invest because they want these companies to be the pioneers in humanities. The US is no where near being a secular state. you can search for various authentic surveys on the percentage of people who are evangelical christians/ sympethizers who are widely represented in the government.
3: I am not a Shoaib sympathizer neither a big fan (in my opinion he is a small fish in a big pond that the Pakistani creative community is). But he is very open about his message in the movie and yes it is against the Jamaat philosophy. My point is simple: you can disagree with his message, but you cannot crucify the person for airing his opinions, just like Zakir Naik or Mufti Taqi Usmani should not be barred from airing theirs. All opinions and ideas (and that could even include ideas against any religion) are public domain and should be aired so people can start talking about it and make sense out of it and most importantly, can ultimately learn the truth.
So relax, this is not as big of an issue as you have made it sound like.
p.s: I could be an undercover (US neocons and Jewish Lobby/desi Liberals and seculars)as you put it.
cheers
February 25th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Atif, again you didn’t catch the train.For your referrence I am pasting statement given by Shoaib which he later REMOVED from his website because he wanted to hide his extreme point of view against Junaid Jamshed. First clear your mind from any doubt that Shoaib made this movie against Junaid and his statement speaks its self.
One morning i was going through a newspaper and i saw my friend junaid jamshed’s interview in it. After looking at his new attire in the photograph that ace the article published in it. I could not stop myself from reading it. The more i read the more sad i felt. He had announced quiting music after being convinced that it was “haram”. It really shook me very badly. I have never believed that God could hate the two most beautiful things he has given to mankind…. Music and painting.why are these the two most beautiful things i felt that a confused man like junaid had no right to confuse thousands of his youthful followers. I had given him sixteen years of my life as a true friend and had played my role in his professional life to the best of my abilities. How could he throw away our sixteen years just like that without even consulting me? I felt that it was my duty to rectify the damage he had done to the already suffering society under the influence of fundamentalists. I thought that the need of the hour was to study the whole mindset which gave birth to such wrong notions about islam. I have no doubt in my mind that instead of taking the present age fourteen hundred years back we have to bring islam to the present age. The best service to islam today is to make it applicable to modern day requirements.
You were talking about “Self righteous” attitude of Muslims now what do you say about Shoaib’s rant against JJ? who’s Shoaib to dictate JJ what should he do or what not? But I know you preferred to Ignore it since it was according to your “taste” *grin*
So relax, this is not as big of an issue as you have made it sound like
Excuses. This is what our psuedo intellectuals seek all the time. if I follow you theory, I should not offer prayers as well since God is “INSIDE” me so why to show off by going in mosques or praying at home? Similarly I should not offer Namaz because it’s not in Quran(as per belief of Hadith Rejectors) and Hadiths are fabricated(Godforbid)?
The thing is, we always try to justify our fantasies with in a religion and want to mold it according to our own will. I don’t understand why people try to seek shelter of religion to justify the filth which they happily follow? it’s act of cowardness. I think athiests are better than such class. atleast they do exhibit what they talk about rather being what’s said in Urdu, Baghal mey choori moo pey raam raam
p.s: Between did you visit the link I posted in last comment? *grin*
p.s: I could be an undercover (US neocons and Jewish Lobby/desi Liberals and seculars)as you put it.
how can one put neocons(right wingers) and liberals(left wingers) together? may be you are not aware of what do you right about?
IMO, Neocons or Jews are way better than so called Liberals. Atleast they do know the values of their religons and follow it rather act like lame liberals who always busy to copy west one way or other.
March 12th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Aslam-o-Alaikum,
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am age of 25, I am from London, basicly I am from Pakistan. I seen The movie, I am impressed. I would like to share some more information with the Mr. Dirctor. The things I would like to share with him I cant mention because its very Personal. All I say the info is relivent to Islam, Pakistan and whole world. I am not trying to contact Mr. Shoaib after watching his Movie. I am trying to contact to right person for more then 2 years. But I didnt get any good progress. If you guys give me his contact details. Like any contact number will be very great, othertwise please provide me his any E:mail ID with his permission I will very thankful to you.
Your Faithfuly,
Muzammil Gul
muzammilgul@hotmail.com,
abc.guleo@gmail.com,
abc.guleo@yahoo.com,
Tel: +44-78 786 716 37
Many Thanks,
Khuda Hafiz
March 24th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Sab se pehlay to mai Shoaib Mansoor sahab ko kehna chahta hoon k woh Islam K baray mai sahi taleem hasil karain.
jahan tak Musiq hai Islam mai musiq ki qatan koi gunjaish nahi hai. Hum log 1 waqay ko (jis mai chotti bachion ne duff bajaya tha) le kar chaltay hain or kehtay hain k musiq islam mai jayz hai buhat afsoos ki baat hai. Musiq k khilaf kai hadees mojood hain woh kissi ko nazar nahi aatt. ALLAH HAUMAIN MAAF KARAY.
Or janah tak HAZRAT DAWOOD ka taloq hai to woh NAUZOBILLAH gana nahi gatay thay woh taurait ki tilawat kya kartay thay. ALLAH KA WASTA HAI AGAR ISLAM KO PHAILA NAHI SAKTAY TO IS K BARAY MAI GHALAT NATAIN BHI NA PHAILAIN
April 4th, 2008 at 4:52 am
Shoaib Mansoor has done an excellent job in portraying the challenges faced by contemporary muslims, especially the younger generation. He might have been wrong in his position as far as music is concerned but he correctly saw the wider issues. The issues which any kind of extremism brings along with it, be it secular extremism or Islamic extremism. We can continue to debate about music and paintings while day after day suicide bombings rock Pakistan. Deny it all you want but there is something fundamentally wrong in the way our youngsters are being torn between the two kinds of extremisms. Our choices are stark, we can only choose one lifestyle, in either choice we are forced to give up the alternative completely. We need a middle path, our scholars need to address the issues of the younger generation and solve their issues or else forever be condemned to this vicious cycle of violence or “enlightened moderation”.
April 4th, 2008 at 6:26 am
Shoaib Mansoor has done an excellent job in portraying the challenges faced by contemporary muslims,
there is an old saying that preaching starts from home. At one side shoaib is against “EXTREMISM” while on other hand he himself exhibited EXTREMISM by getting pissed that WHY Junaid left him?
Such kind of preachers are not credible for common and sane people.
April 4th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
i am from india.pakistan ka ye hal dekhkar bara afsos hota hai.jo apke mulk me ho raha hai wo yaha hindu mulk me nahi ho sakta.din k baghair kabhi musalman kamyab nahi ho sakte . puri islami tarikh utha k dekh le. allah ki madad hamesha din par hi ayi hai asbab par nahi. sahaba duniya k aitbar se ghairo se bahut pichhe the magar allaha ne din par chamkaya.
aur aj aisi film pakistan me bani hai. india me banti to chal nahi sakti thi.koi ghair muslim agar islam ko ghalat pesh karta hai to itna gham nahi hota jab hamare musalman log din ko ghalat pesh karte hai.
mai to pakistan ko isse behtar samajhta tha. kya waqye film ko waha majority pasand kar rahi hai.
mere gham ki inteha nahi. allah hi inhe samajh de
April 4th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
pakistanio tumhe kya ho gaya hai .is film ko kaise chalne diya jisme sunnat aur din ka mazaq uraya gaya. afsos ye fitna ab india me bhi a raha hai.pakistanio k liye dub marne ki bat hai. pakistan to islam k nam par bana tha. jo hamare musalman bhi yaha se gaye sab bewquf ban gaye. india bhi secular pakistan bhi secular.
what an irony. i feel too sorry. if anyone of u want to debate with me contact on +919940284062
April 4th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
BTW this movie is being released in India as well.
April 10th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA You stupid pakis yaha chup chup ke kya batee ho rahi hai? You fucking terrorist bastards. Islam ko to marna hi hai, aaj ho ya kal ho! Tum makachodo ko pasand nahi hai to vapas jao jahase tum salo ae the. ISLAM OUT OF INDIA!
April 11th, 2008 at 6:05 am
hello my lame Hindu friend.
Read this
and commit suicide.
April 12th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
bhaiyon .. for God’s sake .. please stop quibbling about such issues.
1. It is just a movie
2. People have their own views on everything - be it religion .. BE TOLERANT .. Shoaib is being tolerant about it .. I am sure he is not venting such anger as it being propogated against him on this blog. @Admin - plz calm down man
3. If people dont follow everything said in the Quran - does it make them non-Muslim. Come on guys, its just a rule book .. if you forget one rule are you expelled from the religion or what ..
Will post more later
April 13th, 2008 at 5:24 am
AoA
I am a pakistani, living abroad, and just came to know about this movie. I searched the net and found your link. After reading the article and the coments, I must congratulate you about your views and I think that you r on the right track. May Allah guide you and perfect your deen.
People like SM, what to comment, a person involved in Showbiz and talking about Deen and JJ and Tabligh!!!! no comparison
Also, these Indian Muslims should be shameful of not joining the Muslims who voted for a separate nation, and look at you in seular India, read the comment of that last Hindu citizen of yours, in Pakistan, whehter secular of religious, at least we have our own identity, what about U? What percentage of Muslims are enjoying the same status as the Hindus in the Secular India? One of my Hindu colleague was astonished to see my qualifications, and said that muslims are basically sweepers, or meat shop owners or doing substandard jobs ( mostly ) in India, ( there might be few who would have excelled ( feudals )); So just pray for Muslims and islam instead of criticising the weaknesess of your brethern in pak or anyother muslim country.
April 13th, 2008 at 5:52 am
@peacelover: yo made me laugh when you said this:
BE TOLERANT .. Shoaib is being tolerant about it
It seems you didn’t read SM’s “tolerent” speech about Junaid:
One morning i was going through a newspaper and i saw my friend junaid jamshed’s interview in it. After looking at his new attire in the photograph that ace the article published in it. I could not stop myself from reading it. The more i read the more sad i felt. He had announced quiting music after being convinced that it was “haram”. It really shook me very badly. I have never believed that God could hate the two most beautiful things he has given to mankind…. Music and painting.why are these the two most beautiful things i felt that a confused man like junaid had no right to confuse thousands of his youthful followers. I had given him sixteen years of my life as a true friend and had played my role in his professional life to the best of my abilities. How could he throw away our sixteen years just like that without even consulting me? I felt that it was my duty to rectify the damage he had done to the already suffering society under the influence of fundamentalists. I thought that the need of the hour was to study the whole mindset which gave birth to such wrong notions about islam. I have no doubt in my mind that instead of taking the present age fourteen hundred years back we have to bring islam to the present age. The best service to islam today is to make it applicable to modern day requirements.
READ THIS. yes READ THIS! I think Shoaib’s followers believe in some weired definition of tolerance which is even followed by Bush’s fellows.
I don’t have time to get engaged in same arguments again. If Shoaib Was so true then why did he try to hide his OWN WORDS on HIS OWN website. Read here
April 21st, 2008 at 6:39 pm
@indian muslim
That indian hindu is a paki s*um who wrote such bad words against islam!!
No indian hindu will accuse anyones religion!!
these paki always wnt to prove that hindus of india are terrorists like me!!
hindus and indian muslims are tolerant and we dont need to defame islam to convince people of our country ,that islam is peaceful religion!!
its fault of your wahabi and taliban and madarssa funded radical who have understood their islam and produced world class terrorisst
@Baatoonigoonga
Mr paki!i am happy to know that gt a good job abroad and u r educated enough!!
plz i know hw many pakis engineers are produced in a year??
5000
in india we churn out 6 lak engineers /yr
and now atleast 8.5% are muslims!!
so 50000 muslims engineers in a year
and thats 8 times engineers produced by your madarssa engineering college
india muslims are 55% literate
the only prob in india is that
1)competition is tough
2)muslims generally move to gulf to earn fast buck and tend to be little casual on indian higher education
BUt with INdian IT companies who recruit3-4 laks per year,muslims are competing liek indians and dont worry,we are producing 8 times more and in few yrs ,we wll produce 20 times more than engineer than u
3)Pak should better buy foreign professor and pay them 60000$ yearly and become bankrupt
4) i knw how good pakis students!!i have hardly seen any paki in top USA tech institute,and may be there are 5-10 in lower USA ranked Masters instiutes and they
stand nowhere indians!!
5)pak better go and study on your free HEC sholarship in UK/France and become good professor !!
April 24th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
No one can criticize music nor one can blame it. you should be the one to decide your priorities whether to perform prayers or to listen to music. if you could not perform your prayers, music is at no fault, you are the one to be blamed. there are billions of music lovers who are also great followers of their religion and perform the prayers on time. in terms you are the ultimate losers and not anyone like shoaib mansoor
April 24th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
sadiq, you are yet another typical blind follower of a personality rather using brain to figure out what’s wrong or right. so useless to argue with you while many like you were already answered. However I would to comment on following:
there are billions of music lovers who are also great followers of their religion and perform the prayers on time. in terms you are the ultimate losers and not anyone like shoaib mansoor
Islam is not about performing exercise in form of Namaz and Roza.Islam is more than that. The basics of Islam is “Obey God and His messenger” and when one doesn’t follow it , he can’t say he practices Islam fully. It’s just like I disobey my parents but still claim that I love them.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:07 am
you r very correct in the sense that Islam is much more than what we think and we believe. But I would like to add a point in this. Who decides the messenger of God? Is it not me? I come around a thousand messengers daily who teach me something or the other. When human beings are created by God himself then every person is a messenger in the one form or the other.
And one more thing for your information. The only thing constant in this world is change. we see change every moment. right from morning to evening, from childhood to adulthood, even seasons change. then why can’t we?? Why should I not consider a person like Shoaib a messenger who is trying to tell us to change our very orthodox and centuries old principles? We people blindly follow what is told to us by our today’s religious teachers. Why shouldn’t we try to think logically, what is the reason behind each and every principle. I feel when we will start thinking logically and enquire what is it behind each principle which God has taught us. When we will start doing this I think all of the problems related to us will be solved.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Who decides the messenger of God?
I don’t know what’s your belief but in Quran God said several time ,”Obey God and Obey His messenger Muhammad[saw]” and Muslims believe in it
If you follow some other belief, let me know so we proceed accordingly.
I feel when we will start thinking logically and enquire what is it behind each principle which God has taught us.
and I am failed to figure any logic in your last two rants. All I found that you have some love relationship with Shoaib that you are insisting others to follow him.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Adnan, I think You haven’t got my point. I do not want to mention the holy Quran nor do I intend to mention the name of his Holiness Muhammad atleast here. Because I consider myself far below the two. My point here is, God himself won’t come down to tell me what to do and what not to do. Instead he chose messengers to speak on behalf of him. I liked Shoaib’s idea so I am supporting him. I am not insisting anyone to follow what he has conveyed through the film. Also, I want you to go to the roots of our religion and inquire why God has told us to do things in a particular way. Why not the other way?? Everything we follow, we do has some or the other logic behind it. I think God has given us a sense of thinking for such purposes. If God wanted us to follow him blindly then he would have never given us brains.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I do not want to mention the holy Quran nor do I intend to mention the name of his Holiness Muhammad atleast here
But Shoaib doing it? and challenging what God and His Messenger said. That’s the whole point!
Everything we follow, we do has some or the other logic behind it. I think God has given us a sense of thinking for such purposes. If God wanted us to follow him blindly then he would have never given us brains.
Let me tell you one thing that NOT everything could eb solved by using Logic. I want to ask what’s the logic behind feeling like “Love” then one person gets ready to do anything for other person? what does science or logic you figure out?
I agree that Allah has asked us to use brain but that doesn’t meant to against HIM(SWT).
God himself won’t come down to tell me what to do and what not to do
Agreed. That’s why He sent Messengers one after other? From Adam to Mohammad(saw) all conveyed same message. God gave us Quran and Rasool Gave us Hadith for future generations. We don’t need other Rasool nor God needed other Messenger. What God asked Muslims to do Tableegh of His messenger. The prophet(saw) said in last sermon to convey His message even a single verse. When such work is done by Muslims, they are badmouth as Mullah or molvi like shoaib ridiculed them.
On a related note, visit the following post of mine. If shoaib was right then Why did he remove his own words?
http://kadnan.com/blog/2007/08/01/shoaib-k-liye-webmaster-removed-the-link-of-directors-statement-from-main-page-of-kkl/
April 26th, 2008 at 8:03 am
My only point here is do not consume the whole dish, take out what you want to eat. My logic is simple. Whatever Shoaib has depicted in his film, I know there are some points which are not correct, leave them aside and try to learn what are the good things in it. I am not concerned about his personal life, the only thing I want to say is, many points in the film are worth debatable. I favor many points in the film that does not necessarily mean you should also follow me. Think on it and you will feel that there are some points which are correct and should be followed in atleast developed world where humanity is respected. And let the discussion end here. Because I know that will be of no use to someone who does not want to change.
Note:
My statements are not personally directed to any particular person.
April 26th, 2008 at 8:37 am
One more Point: Someone in this blog has said that majority of Indian Muslims constitute lower section of society who generally do work such as driving auto rickshaw,etc,etc. I want my friend to correct his own statement and try to find out the facts behind it. In India, Muslims are nearly non existent in rural areas. they mostly live in and around cities. this has not happened in recent years but they are living in cities from almost 4 centuries. so majority of cities are inhabited by substantial amount of Muslim people. And when you stay at some place, it is your duty to see to it that cleanliness is maintained. But as you know, population in cities have increased double folded from last 50 years, so you may come across many Muslims who have opted to grab such work which was required. And that has initially created wealth for many. The blog users here mostly live in cities, so they might not know that such work is done in rural areas by non Muslims. My family started scrap business here generations ago and we are amongst millionaires of our city. I think this is the best example.
And many Muslims in the country are well educated and they are working at many respectful positions. To site an example, Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam held the position of Head of Defense Nuclear development projects. He was the pioneer behind the nuclear development in India. Also he was also President of India. So if you have the guts and brain you can reach to any level in any country.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:55 am
“one of the signs of jugdement day were the becoming popular of lady singers and musical instruments.. you can check that out at thousand places.”
I want to comment on the mentality of the person who has written this. I don’t want to debate on the truthfulness of this statement nor on the topic of judgement day.
On one hand people want to date sexy and educated ladies, and on the other hand they write such comments. People want beautiful, sexy, and educated woman to be their better half who can manage to maintain their social status. Also they want to suppress women by writing such comments. I don’t understand why you people follow double standards. If such statements come from a hardcore fundamentalist, I understand. But if a person’s criteria is beautiful, sexy, and educated woman, then I think how downgraded is such people’s mentality. Judgement day is destined to come, we cannot change it nor we can postpone it. Only thing we can change is our mentality. Let women live their life in whatever way they want to live. Don’t force anyone, be it your children. Guide them by providing options. Tell them each option’s pluses and minuses. And let them decide.
On a lighter note, This is to be done only when they can speak, read and write. I mean at right age. You cannot make a newborn take his decisions.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:13 am
Sadiq, did you visit following or not!!
http://kadnan.com/blog/2007/08/01/shoaib-k-liye-webmaster-removed-the-link-of-directors-statement-from-main-page-of-kkl/
May 5th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Hi,
Before I write ANYTHING about the movie, Adnan’s above post, and the comments on this post, I’d like to make a few disclaimers and seek permission from Adnan as well as other fellow readers -
I am a Hindu, living in India.
I don’t know ANYTHING about ISLAM, except for whatever has been made out of the religion by the people around the world, our countries, societies and the media. I have a lot of Muslim friends, living with whom have taught me a little bit about Islam, definitely not the religious aspects.
Nor have I any knowledge of the sacred Quran or any other Religious Text in Islam.
I have seen the movie recently and have quite a few thoughts regarding it, which I would not want to publish in ignorance and unwillingly offend anyone.
So, if I’m still allowed to participate in the conversation, and try to put my points across regarding the issues discussed here, I’ll do so.
P.S - I have read the whole blog post twice over, along with all the comments till the one just above this one. And as far as possible, I’ve tried to understand the points being made by Adnan, twomanyface and others.
Regards,
Naveen
May 5th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Dear Naveen,
Welcome on blog. As long as you are being offensive, i will answer you. In case I don’t know something about your question then either I will refuse or will make study and then reply you.
it doesn’t matter me what’s your belief.
May 9th, 2008 at 7:47 am
Hi Adnan,
Thanks for allowing me to participate. So as I learn from the above post and comments, more than the topics raised in the movie, and the message dispersed therein, you were shocked to see the REASON for which Shoaib chose to make the movie. And you have quoted him from his website, saying whatever he has. My points are exactly regarding your opposition of Shoaib’s reasoning and not regarding what your beliefs about the controversial topics are.
As you claim in your post, Shoaib is arrogant, mudslinging on JJ, more fundamentalist and extremist than JJ etc etc. And why on earth is he so - Just because he exercised his right to feel peeved on seeing a near and dear one go away from him (for good or bad, that is not the question) without even telling him once???
Come on brother, please try to throw out all pre-conceived notions about everyone including JJ, SM and then inspect his statements as an outsider. What has he told -
One morning i was going through a newspaper and i saw my friend junaid jamshed’s interview in it. After looking at his new attire in the photograph that ace the article published in it. I could not stop myself from reading it. The more i read the more sad i felt. He had announced quiting music after being convinced that it was “haram”. It really shook me very badly.
He just fel sad on learning that his dear JJ had gone away from music, away from him and away from the people of Pakistan. He was shocked to read that JJ now considered music to be HARAM. I think SM has the right to feel otherwise, because it is a personal opinion, and he also has the right to express his surprise about a close aid. He never trashes JJ for believeing that music is HARAM, but only SHOWS SURPRISE AND SADNESS.
Whats wrong with this?
I have never believed that God could hate the two most beautiful things he has given to mankind…. Music and painting.why are these the two most beautiful things i felt that a confused man like junaid had no right to confuse thousands of his youthful followers.
Again this is SM’s personal opinion about GOD and music and religion. He thinks JJ is confused (please note, he again told his friend JJ to be CONFUSED and not something like a RETARD or CULPRIT or SINNER) and acknowledges that JJ has a massive fan following, which JJ should respect and not try to influence. In our societies, it is common for people to get carried away by activities of their idols (good or bad) and SM didn’t want to happen in JJ’s case and thus said so.
Again, No rational person would see any wrong with that.
I had given him sixteen years of my life as a true friend and had played my role in his professional life to the best of my abilities. How could he throw away our sixteen years just like that without even consulting me?
I mean, please don’t tell that you see poison in this as well! Tell me honestly, for example, how would you feel, if one fine morning your best friend for life, for whom you had done a lot in friendship, comes to you and says he got married with a girl who you think is not fit for him in any way (maybe that girl is perfect actually, but you just don’t think so for whatever reasons), and then he refuses to even listen to your concern? SM just says that JJ didn’t even find it necessary to consult or tell him about such a decision, even after what SM did for him in those 16 years.
I felt that it was my duty to rectify the damage he had done to the already suffering society under the influence of fundamentalists. I thought that the need of the hour was to study the whole mindset which gave birth to such wrong notions about islam. I have no doubt in my mind that instead of taking the present age fourteen hundred years back we have to bring islam to the present age. The best service to islam today is to make it applicable to modern day requirements.
Well, if there was consensus on this one, then 3/4 of the world’s media would be jobless, millions of people would not be killed by either side, nor would we have so much of hatred and animosity in our society.
The point here is NOT what is correct and what is wrong, rather the point is WHAT SHOAIB MANSOOR feels is correct and and wants to do something about it. Exactly similar to the way JJ thought what was correct for him and followed that path. And fortunately or unfortunately, SM is not alone in his belief that we are in a society hounded by fundamentalists, and we need to do a lot of clean up act. The big point is that still SM is not raising a finger at anyone with the intention to disregard him personally, his intention still is to do as best as he can for ISLAM. And intention is what should be the deciding factor (if not the only factor) when it comes to judging.
My dear friend, I think, you are doing the same mistake, which you are accusing SM of - arrogance, fundamentalism, close mindedness and not trying to give other person a chance to justify. Please don’t take anything personal, I don’t mean to offend you, but honestly wish that you see things in perspective.
Maybe what you feel and say is 100% correct, maybe SM is completely wrong in his analysis of JJ and Islam, maybe what JJ did, is the best a true Muslim can do. But I strongly oppose your trashing of SM on the grounds as laid above.
May peace prevail, and hatred finds its way into the dungeon of darkness.
Regards,
Naveen
June 24th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Dear Naveen,
I just came across this blog an hour back , n quite much confused coz the main theme is neglected various times n different issues were hijacked just to confront each other.
We r none to comment n judge others or their comments n lives, Islam has asked every individual to follow the right path taught by Quran N Allah’s Prophet. And to preach the same to the whole human kind, if we think that ISLAM is the best religion or the lifestyle to be followed then its a duty of every muslim to forward the message of Allah, but the preaching must be peaceful n shud not be imposed, as those laws which r imposed in a harsh manner do not last longer.
we have nothing to do with the rivalry among JJ & SM, , may be both have them buried this argument n rivalry long back, n we r wasting our time to justify or accuse both of them.
about the movie , its indeed controversial, though it has a good message also but in quite much derogatory manner. The director has strongly convinced the masses by telling one-sided stories n putting the curtains over others as it was really the director’s movie, so there was no-one to make an argument or contradict to the point he has proved and getting appluase from all the corners of the society.
what lesson we can take from this movie is , that ALL OF US MUSLIMS shud try n practice islam as it is being taught obeying Allah, following sunnats, no lies, no bribes, no back-biting, so that people like mansoor shall not get any chance to prove the islamic teachings as outdated ot misinterpret them.
gudnite
Allah hafiz
rgrds
FUAD- New Delhi
July 7th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Hi… to start off I am Indian and a Hindu… Just wanted to speak about my observations… There is a scene in the movie where the Muslim friend of Sharaad brings 2 female children for education… A man (in the traditional attire in a undeveloped village) helping the main female lead set up the school… that should be the takeaways from the movie… Other than that.. the last court scene… from that what I would take away is “Any strong nation goes down… not because of the unwise people… but because the wise people never chose to do anything”… From an outside perspective… I am not a RELIGIONIST… I believe in GOD… but I do not pray in a particular form.. I have my own private unstructured conversations with GOD… Everyone if free to follow their own… There should not be any force or any kind of rules/regulations on them… There should not be any ostracization towards the one’s who has different ideas… that is all I would like to say…
July 7th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Just another thing I wanted to make… Ashamed of Indian Hindu’s comments… Probably he is senseless… also did not watch the movie… and if he did, he did not get from it… To be true we too have a lot of people who has done injustice to others… but not everyone is the same and a few people does not represent all… Pakistan is another great country with some wonderful and caring people around… and as the movie’s male protagonist suggests “I love America.. I cannot hate it only because a few people did injustice to me… In the same way please don’t hate my country.. just because a few of us have done injustice to you…”…
October 7th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Shoaib mansoor, you did a very wrong job and all characters who played role in this film because it is sinful act to make amusement of Islam like this way. There is always a good way to convey the good thing, if you really think that you are doing some good work. “Music is allowed in our religion with limitation as alcohol is also allowed with limitation that we can use in medicine and other stuff.” So you need to clear in your thoughts,that in islam only duff and claps are allowed but music and music composition through different musical instruments are not allowed which you showed in your film.Please dont want to be a part of Anti-Islamic NGO’s.
We are the follower of Muhammd PBUH and follow him. Please quote anything else in your any film. Beware, otherwise Khuda ka azam jald tumharay pass ayega. My pray for you the “Allah tum naik kam ke hidayat day”. Ameen.
October 28th, 2008 at 1:23 am
everybody keeps refering to the holy books as being TRUTH. and that the problem lies only in interpretation… my question to all of u is, if i tld u that i have the TRUTH, u would ask me how can i prove it?? i would say that it is the truth cause i say so, i have been contacted by divine power, a revelation.
HOW WOULD U VERIFY IT????CAN U EVER VERIFY IT?WOULD U TAKE IT ON FAITH? WOULD U LIVE UR WHOLE LIFE AND STRONGLY BELIEVE IN IT, just cause i say i am a man of GOD, WOULD U?
NOW, HOW CAN U CONFIDENTLY SAY THAT THESE HOLY BOOKS CARRY THE WORD OF GOD? CAUSE THE BOOK SAYS SO? CAUSE THATS A PRETTY WEAK EVIDENCE, AS I SHOWED IN PREVIOUS EXAMPLE, ISNT IT?? THINK ABOUT IT…..
October 28th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
No Sami your example is really not making sense. First you go thru various books of faith then comment on it.
Till then,tata
November 1st, 2008 at 9:51 am
Very good blog, Adnan!
Its useless arguing with people who don’t want to believe haram as haram. Don’t waste your time with them.
PICTURES AND MUSIC ARE HARAM.
MUSIC IN THE QURAN
Allah Most High says:
“And there are among men, those that purchase idle tales, to mislead from the path of Allah and throw ridicule. For such there will be a humiliating punishment.” (Surah Luqman, V. 6)
The great Companion Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (R.A.)states in the explanation of the word “idle tales”:“By Allah its meaning is music.” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi, 1/223 authenticated by al-Hakim in his Mustadrak, 2/411)
Imam Ibn Abi Shayba related with his own transmission that he (Ibn Mas’ud) said: “I swear by Him besides Whom there is no God that it refers to singing.” (132/5)
The great Companion and exegete of the Qur’an, Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) states:“The meaning of the word is music, singing and the like.” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi, 1/221& Musannaf Ibn abi Shayba, 132/5)
He also stated:“Music and the purchase of female singers.” (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba, 132/5)
Hasan al-Basri said:“This verse was revealed in relation to singing and musical instruments.” (Tafsir ibn Kathir, 3/442)
“Those who witness no falsehood, and if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honourable avoidance.” (Surah al-Furqan, V. 72)
Imam Abu Bakr al-Jassas relates from Imam Abu Hanifah that the meaning of “falsehood (zur)” is music and song. (Ahkam al-Qur’an, 3/428)
“Lead to destruction those whom you can among them with your (seductive) voice.” (Surah al-Isra, V.64)
One of the great exegete, Mujahid interpreted the word “voice (sawt)” by music, singing, dancing and idle things. (Ruh al-Ma’ani, 15/111)
Imam Suyuti (Allah have mercy on him) quoted Mujahid as saying: “Voice (in this verse) is singing and flute.” (al-Iklil fi istinbat al-tanzil, 1444)
Another exegete, Dahhak also interpreted the word “Sawt” with flutes. (Qurtubi, al-Jami` li Ahkam al-Qur’an, 10/288)
MUSIC IN HADITH
Abd Allah Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah said: Verily Allah has forbidden alcohol, gambling, drum and guitar, and every intoxicant is haram (Musnad Ahmad & Sunan Abu Dawud).
Sayyiduna Abu Malik al-Ashari reports that he heard the Messenger of Allah say: There will appear people in my Ummah, who will hold adultery, silk, alcohol and musical instruments to be lawful (Sahih al-Bukhari)
Abd Allah ibn Masud reports that the Messenger of Allah said: Song makes hypocrisy grow in the heart as water makes plants grow (Sunan al-Bayhaqi).
Sayyiduna Ali ibn Talib reports that the blessed Messenger of Allah said: “When my Ummah begin doing fifteen things, they will be inflicted with tribulations, and (from those 15 things He said): “When female singers and musical instruments become common.” (Sunan Tirmidhi)
Na’fi reports that once Abd Allah ibn Umar heard the sound of a Sheppard’s flute. He put his fingers in his ears, turned his mule away from the road and said: “O Nafi’! Can you hear? I (Nafi’) replied with the affirmative. He carried on walking (with his fingers in his ears) until I said: “the sound has ceased” He removed his fingers from his ears, came back on to the road and said: “I saw the Messenger of Allah doing the same when he heard the flute of the Sheppard.” (Abu Dawud,Ibn Majah)
Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar reports that the Messenger of Allah said: “Verily Allah has forbidden alcohol, gambling, drum and guitar, and every intoxicant is haram.” (Musnad Ahmad, Sunan Abu Dawud)
Abu Umama reports that the Messenger of Allah said: “Allah Mighty and Majestic sent me as a guidance and mercy to believers and commanded to destroy musical instruments, flutes, strings, crucifixes, and the affairs of the pre-Islamic period of ignorance.”(Musnad Ahmad, Abu Dawud)
Sayyiduna Anas (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah said: “On the day of Resurrection, Allah will pour molten lead into the ears of whoever sits listening to a songstress.” (Ibn Asakir, Ibn al-Misri)
HADITH ON PICTURES
عن نافع أن ابن عمر أخبره أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال الذين يصنعون الصور يعذبون يوم القيامة يقال لهم أحيوا ما خلقتم.
It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Umar (Radhiallahu Anhu) that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said, “Those who make pictures will be punished on the day of judgment. It will be said to them: Bring to life what you have created!”
(Hadith: 5501)
عن مسلم بن صبيح قال كنت مع مسروق في بيت فيه تماثيل مريم فقال مسروق هذا تماثيل كسرى فقلت لا هذا
تماثيل مريم فقال مسروق أما إني سمعت عبد الله بن مسعود يقول قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أشد الناس عذابا يوم القيامة المصورون
It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Mas’ood (Radhiallahu Anhu) that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said, “The people who will be most severely punished on the Day of Judgment are those who make pictures (of animate objects)”.
(Hadith: 5505)
عن سعيد بن أبي الحسن قال جاء رجل إلى ابن عباس فقال إني رجل أصور هذه الصور فأفتني فيها فقال له ادن مني فدنا منه ثم قال ادن مني
فدنا حتى وضع يده على رأسه قال أنبئك بما سمعت من رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول كل مصور في النار يجعل له بكل صورة صورها نفسا فتعذبه في جهنم.
It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Abbaas (Radiallahu Anhu) that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasalam) said, “Every person who creates pictures of animate objects will be in the fire of Hell. Every picture that he created will be given a life and will punish him in Jahannum”.
(Hadith: 5506)
عن النضر بن أنس بن مالك قال كنت جالسا عند ابن عباس فجعل يفتي ولا يقول قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم حتى سأله رجل فقال إني رجل أصور هذه الصور فقال له ابن عباس ادنه فدنا الرجل فقال ابن عباس سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول من صور صورة في الدنيا كلف أن ينفخ فيها الروح يوم القيامة وليس بنافخ.
It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Abbaas (Radiallahu Anhu) that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasalam) said, “Whoever produces a picture (of an animate object) in this world will be forced to bring it to life on the Day of Judgment but he will be unable to do so”.
(Hadith: 5507)
Ref: Sahih Al Muslim Vol:14 Pg:317-319
PICTURES IN THE FORM OF PHOTOGRAPHY
Pictures of animate beings are haram, whether they are humans or other creatures, whether they are two dimensional or three dimensional, whether they are printed, drawn, etched, engraved, carved or cast in moulds. Ahadith include all of these types of pictures. Muslims should submit to the teachings of Islam instead of arguing with them. Muslims should not keep any pictures of animate beings in his house, because they also prevent the angels from entering.
In the book Al-Ilaam bi naqd kitaab al-halaal wal-haraam, the author says: “Photography is even more of an imitation of the creation of Allah than pictures which are engraved or drawn, so it is even more deserving of being prohibited… There is nothing that could exclude photography from the general meaning of the reports.” Among the scholars who have discussed the issue of photography is Shaikh Nasir al-Deen al-Albani, who said: “Some of them differentiate between hand-drawn pictures and photographic images by claiming that the latter are not products of human effort, and that no more is involved than the mere capturing of the image. This is what they claim. The tremendous energy invested by the one who invented this machine that can do in a few seconds what otherwise could not be done in hours does not count as human effort, according to these people! Pointing the camera, focusing it, and taking the picture, preceded by installation of the film and followed by developing and whatever else that I may not know about… none of this is the result of human effort, according to them!Some of them explain how this photography is done, and summarize that no less than eleven different actions are involved in the making of a picture. In spite of all this, they say that this picture is not the result of human action!
Can a person be allowed to hang up a picture of a man, for example, if it is produced by photography, but not if it is drawn by hand?Those who say that photography is permitted have frozen the meaning of the word tasweer, restriciting it only to the meaning known at the time of Prophet Mohammad and not adding the meaning of photography, which is picture-making in every sense - linguistic, legal and in its harmful effects. Using the weird idea that pictures are haram and photogrphy is halal, you could allow idols which have not been carved but have been made by pressing a button on some machine that turns out idols by the dozen. What do you say to that?
November 19th, 2008 at 1:16 am
it does make sense. i will try again. i can read all the religious books of world (as u suggested) that claim to be direct word of God, but the question still remains the same, how do i know which is true??if there is anyone that is true??how do i verify that it is really what it claims to be.
let me illustrate using different example, if i brought u to court and accused u that u have killed my brother, how would i prove it? should i say in court that u should b sentenced to life in prison cause I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT?? OR THAT I WAS RAISED BELIEVING THAT?? OR THAT MY PARENTS TOLD ME AND THEY ARE NEVER WRONG? OR THAT I HAD A REVELATION ABOUT IT? OR THAT I SAY SO AND I AM THE FINAL AUTHORITY?? OR SHOULD THE JUDGE TAKE IT ON FAITH THAT WHAT U SAY MUST B TRUE???
offcourse not, it will b stupid to do that, wouldnt it be??
the point is that, one cannot sentence someone for prison in life simply based on somebodies personal beliefs and opinions. court works on evidence and reason.
so, what makes u believe that the book is, what it claims to be?? and remember there are many that claim to be WORD OF GOD, and they obviously contradict each other in many ways. what makes u believe that ur book is CORRECT?? because u were raised believing that???
there are many assumptions we make in life, things we take for granted. its good to examine them. Socrates said that an unexamined life is not worth living. obviously if TRUTH doesnt matter me, as it seems for the person who commented after me and asked u to ignore me and my questions, than u can ignore all this also. but my friend if u are after was is true, then u need buckle up ur seat belt cause the journey is hard and long.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:29 am
MISTAKES CORRECTED (LAST PARAGRAPH)
there are many assumptions we make in life, things we take for granted. its good to examine them. Socrates said that an unexamined life is not worth living. obviously, if TRUTH doesnt matter to you, as it seems for the person who commented after me and asked u to ignore me and my questions, than u can ignore all this also. but my friend, if u are after what is TRUTH AND KNOWLEDGE, then u need to buckle up ur seat belt cause the journey is hard and long.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
you people are no one to say anything wrong about such a talented and gifted person. he has put forward both view points in front of you now it is up to you to decide or choose. you should have no concern with shoaib mansoor’s belief. this is a very sensitive topic and i also don’t totally agree with him.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Mia so its OK for Shoaib to poke in Junai’s matters? Duh
November 29th, 2008 at 4:36 am
@mia
i agree with u. anyways, ever heard of something called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. an artist or actually anyone has the right to criticize anything he/she wants.
people have died for this right so that we can avoid tyranny of authority and religious institutions.
i dont know much about junaid, but the movie is not about him, its about certain beliefs, opinions and ideas, some of which may b hld by Junaid. so take it easy there.
March 3rd, 2009 at 5:02 pm
“Khuda Kay Liya” Samjho Warna”other wise you will understand soon”InshaAllah”kay Gana Bajana 100% haram hay aur Tasveer bhi(only faces)
(Because of that i left the singing before Bhai Junaid, I started in 1993 & till 1997, i want to be a famous singer in Paradise, InshaAllah)
regards,
Siddiq Sheikh
April 12th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
I saw this film and it was ok. Obviously Allah is a lie, same as all other religions and people only believe in Islam because their parents do (same with other religions).
Its all medieval superstitious nonsense and fairy tales that folk who do not wish to, or cannot think for themselves cling to for crumbs of comfort, because the real world is too complicated for them to understand. Many myths and legends are common to many cultures throughout the world as fables to teach children, but this doesn not mean the fables are true.
The existence of the San’aa manuscripts shows that the Quran has been changed.
The Quran has been shown to contain many errors - indeed it is a product of its time - based on the ancient Arab wisdom available. When you think about it, we have no more reason to trust hearsay accounts of Arab history then we do hearsay accounts of the Mahabharata. It is only ancestor worship - infalliballity of one’s elders - dressed up.
This is why religious wars and silly.
And this is why, paradoxically, the religious nutjobs are kind of right. If, the scriptures are true (and there is NO good reason for thinking this, if one thinks objectively) then the fundamentalists are correct in their interpretation.
regards
Ricky Khan
May 29th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Ricky, I’m wondering how your keyboard typed all that rubbish that is written as your comment. Naturally you didn’t write it. It just happened without intention… just like all this universe came into existence without Any One creating it… There’s your answer to “Obviously Allah is a lie” … Only if you had the wisdom to perceive the simple fact … things just do not happen by themselves … someone has to do them … How complicated is this for you to understand when you said “…the real world is too complicated for them to understand…”. I really wish you could see …
June 7th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
You are saying the oddest thing:
“o many times I never offered prayers, not even at home, I was not used to offer maghrib and Isha prayer,yeah I seldom offered Asar and Zohar, forget about Zohar. The point is music has something which kept me away from my God daily. ”
Don’t blame music!!!
Shoiab Mansoor did it for the good of Junaid as well as Nation. For God’s Sake wake up!!
June 8th, 2009 at 10:42 am
@Saleha: the oddest thing is that people just want to mould Islam according to their taste and talk about “Ijtehad” for sake of making Islam “easy”. Did you read the entire post? do you know there are hadiths which talks against Music?
please! if you wana listen music, do it! but don’t seek shelter in Islam for your own fantasies.
June 19th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Adnan,
I, here, do not want to debate with you on Music & Islam but my friend remember one thing, Islam doesn’t teach you to cut your head if you have headache. There is not a single thing in this World that GOD created without purpose including the ones that a man/woman posses as a skill/ability/quality. Not all human in this world have equal sense of Music and other arts. These qualities are God-Gifted with some purposes behind and to use them towards the same direction for which provided you with those skils is the purpose of your creation. So there is good music and bad music, there is good art and bad art. Now you have the authority to choose any of them. You need to focus on the message you bring with the art rather than considering the art itself as haram. God created grapes, you use it for different purposes, will you consider them haram because someone is misusing them and making wine out of them? Teach people that shameful deeds are haram, telling a lie is haram, deceiving someone is haram, killing innocent people is haram, hurting other people’s feeling is haram etc. But don’t declare a thing haram if someone misuses it for some shameful deeds and etc. Please check chapter 7 verse 32-33 from Al-Quran. And if Mohammad P.B.U.H at anytime refused to listen “the” music or to make “the” pictures then you probably need to be more focused towards “which” music or “which” pictures he pointed out. There are no orders without wisdom and the wise is one who focuses more on the wisdom behind the order than the order itself and then executes the order. Please check chapter 25 verse 73.
Second thing, human alone is the creation of God which takes care of the adornment along with the essentials. You eat food to kill your hunger but you try to eat “good” food. You wear a dress to cover your body but you try to wear “good” dress. God did not declare the adornment as haram, even appreciated, but taught the human not to circumambulate around the adornment only.
1. Produce good music and art and serve the purpose of the skills provided to you from your GOD.
OR
2. Give good music and art a place as an adornment in your life and focus more towards the essantials.
I know you won’t agree to the above, but i will appreciate if you give the above lines a place on this page.
Thanks,
June 20th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Islam doesn’t teach you to cut your head if you have headache.
Imran, if your mother or some elder forbides you to do something, will you do it? if your boss asks you not to do certain task, do you still do it? I know you will not ask infinite lame reasons for NOT obeying the orders.
If you have really read my article, did you actually READ the hadiths and quranic verses quoted for this issue? When one talks about Islam, it means one is asked to submit to Allah. If you cant submit then you ain’t a Muslim. The examples I gave were an attempt to understand why such orders were given.
you gotta decide yourself who is important for you, Islam or Shoaib Mansoor. For me Islam.
Read this article by Javeria . it will enlighten you more.
http://javeria.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/i-thought-i-couldnt-live-without-music-and-i-was-right/